8th Ed. Defeating The New Nagash

[n810]

I wonder how many skink posion shots it would take to kill him in one round...
(with Mathhammer)

 

[borkbork]

I did some math for my goblins.

A unit of 200 archers with spider banner (poison) will get off 120 shots (volley fire) and assuming they hit on a 5+ you will end up with 5 wounds from poison and 0.8 wounds from the non poisoned shots. So you will need quite a few more than 120 shots.

For the gobbos the story will change if you get gift of the spider god spell off

 

[hdctambien]

Assuming you need 5's to hit:

(a * 1/6 + (a * 1/6 * 1/6)) / 2 / 2 = 7

(a/6) + (a/36) / 4 = 7

a/6 + a/36 = 28

6a + a = 1008

7a = 1008

a = 144

If you need 6's to hit, then it's easier to work backwards

7 wounds
Ward save's half of them = 14 shots
armor save's half of them = 28 shots
every 6 shots = 1 poison wound = 28 * 6 = 168 shots

So, if you are hitting on 5's you need 144 shots
if you are hitting on 6's you need 168 shots

 

[n810]

hmm... yea ... 84 Blowbipe Skinks multi-shoting seems in the realm of possible.

 

[Scalenex]

hmm... yea ... 84 Blowbipe Skinks multi-shoting seems in the realm of possible.

I suppose if 0 of Nagashes 9 spells are direct damage. Whenever I deploy Skirmisher groups close together I always get magic missile induced chain reaction panics.

 

[n810]

LOL
I never said it would be easy,
only said it was possible.

Realisticly, it would probaly take 2 rounds with that many skinks,
and you would probaly loose half of them.

 

[hdctambien]

Realisticly, it would probaly take 2 rounds with that many skinks,

Except Nagash should be able to heal a non-trivial amount of wounds each turn....

Every wound he heals means another 21 5+ shots (or 24 6+ shots) ..

 

[rychek]

Ah yes. I had forgotten that little nugget.

 

[n810]

I haven't read into his rules a lot,
is his healing a for of regen, or
perhaps a spell, or something alltogether unique ?

 

[NexS1]

Dwellers and purple sun can't hurt Tyrion either... yet I have lost him to these things both times i have used him in the last 12 months (yes, I've used him only twice in 12 months because this happens).

But Doom/Darkness him to LD 7 and combat res the crap out of him

Is it safe to assume Tyrion was hit by some hex or other that dropped his stats? If so, statistically speaking, how reliably would such a tactic work against Nagash?

Final Transmutation, or, better yet, Arcane Unforging sounds more likely to succeed, IMO.

it was first turn, no buffs, no hexes. This sums up the majority of my luck in warhammer games.


edit:
Upon further investigation, it seems that arcane unforging seems to be the way to go. every one of his magic items are game changing. Get rid of the book and he loses 4 spells, the sword and he's doing considerably less damage, and the armour is a no-brainer. Without the armour he will just die.

Also, people in this thread have said he can heal wounds... how? Is it an undeath spell?

 

[rychek]

Ouch. Further words fail me.

 

[Scalenex]

Also, people in this thread have said he can heal wounds... how? Is it an undeath spell?

As mentioned earlier.

Nagash can choose his spells from multiple lores. One of these lores is the Lore of Vampires. The Lore of Vampires signature spell is called Inovcation of Nehek (IoN). IoN heals undead 1d6+5 wounds when cast by Nagash in a bubble effect. IoN doesn't work as well on vampriic or ethereal targets but Nagash is neither vampiric nor ethereal.

As not mentioned earlier, the lore attribute of Lore of Vampires lets a friendly undead model be healed a wound.

I have no idea what the new lore has.

 

[NexS1]

Thanks Scal - i tried looking through the thread... I must have had a boy's look!

That being the case, he only gets his heals off if we let the spell through, and if he's trying to get the spells off, then he's not casting his other ridiculously potent dead-raising spells. If he 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 dices the spell, then he'll miscast and hopefully get sucked into the warp, or drop his wizard level. either way i'm OK with hahaha

 

[hdctambien]

Also, one of the Undeath spells is a healing spell. Something like 1d3+1 wounds I think. And it creates a token worth 30 extra points for Nagash to raise with later.

It's worthwhile for him to force through a healing spell if it looks like he's taking a beating.

I agree that arcane unforging is the way to go against Nagash. A couple hits from that and pretty much anything can take him down!

 

[hdctambien]

then he'll miscast and hopefully get sucked into the warp, or drop his wizard level

He gets to reroll on the miscast table... so it's less likely that he will get one of the nasty results.. and the other results will barely scratch him.

 

[NexS1]

2-4 death by chaos warp
10-12 power drain

Half a chance for a good result. 1/2 x 2 = 2/4 = 1/2
I'm sticking to it

 

[hdctambien]

There are 6 ways out of 36 for Cascade and 6 ways out of 36 for Power Drain, so 12 / 36 bad results or 24 / 36 not-bad results (even the Str 10 hit miscast is only going to cause 1 wound half the time... so not a terrible result)

With rerolls Nagash will get a "good" result:

24/36 + (12/36 * 24/36)
= 2/3 + (1/3 * 2/3)
= 2/3 + 2/9
= 6/9 + 2/9
= 8/9
= 88.9% of the time

or 11.1% chance for a bad miscast.

Although, a quarter of those bad miscasts are going to be Cascade without falling down the hole, so that really means that 11.1 / 4 = 2.7% of the time the miscast isn't bad at all (besides ending the magic phase for Nagash)

So, 8.4% chance for a bad miscast for Nagash!

Compared to a normal wizard's 25% chance to fall down the hole/lose levels.

It's better than nothing though!

 

[NexS1]

Good stats Hdc! so the outline for me is:

1: Becalming, channel combo, and double scroll
2: Poison javs until you can get him in combat
3: unforge his gear
4: clog him up with un-stompables and iceshard/speed of light bubble


Another thought - piranha blade will do nicely. just have to get some buffs off to help the wounds. 3 unsaved wounds could see him dead, and he'd only get his ward save. Other tricksters shard can really get its money's worth.

 

[Pinktaco]

Piranha blade won't be enough, not even close. Also remember that he have multiple wounds D3 with HKB. Even if we have a ward of 4+ he'll do an average of 2 wounds to us, not to mention the chance of HKB.

 

[NexS1]

No, i understand that. It's more of a "and this could also help" type dealio