7th Ed. Dealing with a Treeman

[erians]

actually, he doesn't get a ward save from the war-spear, the impact hits become magical, thats why i suggested it.
as for spells, i'd rather go for shadow. while pit of shades is only usefull on the treeman (maybe treekin and dryads but i have no ideea what I they have) you still have steed of shadow for a scar vet with GW and venom and unseen lurker to get your slow saurus in position/to charge, not to mention the magic missile thingy against T3
lore of metal usually relies on armor and WE's barely have any.

Oh yeah, a Chief on ancient steg with war spear would wreck a treeman (8 hits on avarage, 4 wounds and he only gets a 6+ save and no ward). I don't see how the Shadow Lore is good vs WE however. Drayds have in6 and skirmish making pit pretty useless, And the treekins got 3. 1 pit on Treekins does 3 partial hits = 1.5 hits, 0.75 doesnt dodge and die (0.75 of 3 wounds = 2.25 wounds). Spirit of the Forge on Treekin does 7 hits, causing 2.33 wounds that gets doubled to 4.66 (about twice as good as pit).

Metal

Good spells: Spirit of the Forge owns treekins and treemens. Disitillation of Silver owns pretty much everything in the WE army (2D6 flaming S4 hits). Transmutation of Lead, WE relies on killing stuff, with -1 to hit and wound they won't be able to drop many sauruses.

So-so / bad spells: Law of gold is pretty shoddy as there aren't any super powerful magic items for WE. Commandment of Brass is 100% useless. Rule of Burning iron is good against their nobles when combined with Banehead, can easily snipe an annoying BSB as they usually have 5+ or 4+ save, but other than nobles and the ocassional Treeman hit it won't do much good.

Shadow:

Good spells: Pit of Shades is very effective against the treeman, as it has 67% chance of killing him outright (67% of 6 wounds = 4.02, still worse than Spirit of the forge). Its ok against treekins but against anything else its pretty useless since WE have great In. Unseen lurker is nice to get off charges with as WE usually gets them off otherwise. Can be a real surprise to turn a saurus block then charge with magic. Steed of shadows is ok if you play with Scar vets, as you cen send a scar vet flying into archers, but if you have your scar vets mounted or no scar vets at all its 100% useless.

So-so / bad spells: Crown is useless, your slann is usually in the centre of your own army and you will damage yourself more than your opponent with it. Creeping Death is crap, it deals 3D6 S1 hits with no saves, good against knights, crap against stuff with no save (wounds on 6s so it causes an avarage of less than 2 wounds). Shades of Death can be good to gain fear immunity but you already have good LD an all combat troops in the WE army is immune to psych,

As the 6th spell in both lores are pretty much only anti treeman spells it comes down to Lurker vs Destillation of silver & Transmutation of lead. In my experience a good damage spell is vital against WE.

 

[Sebulba]

Lore of Beasts could do pretty well too.

The bear's anger makes those same Scar vets crazy big, albeit they have to be on foot. The crows feast is similar with 2D6 S3 hits which could be good against his archers. The Beast Cowers is a big one as any riders or this tree man just can't move or attack (unless it's a character, which this spell is worthless in that case).

The hunter's spear is a S6 magic missile which is treated like a bolt thrower with no armor saves... which may mean D3 wounds like a bolt thrower?

The Wolf Hunts can send your mounted scarvets into the trees after the treeman if he's hiding out (or carnosaur or stegadon or whatever.) Especially because you move 2D6" which, from what I can tell, isn't affected by moving through trees.

 

[Bibamus]

i'm really curious how the hunters spear works, last game against TK i had to decide between beasts or shadow and i choose shadow because the hunters spear did not mention D3 wounds. (ofcourse light is better but it was a friendly game and the guy is a beginner).
hunters spear functions as a bolt throw regarding he rules, but afaik it has to mention it causes D3 wounds like it mentions its S and the fac that it ignores armor saves

 

[erians]

i'm really curious how the hunters spear works, last game against TK i had to decide between beasts or shadow and i choose shadow because the hunters spear did not mention D3 wounds. (ofcourse light is better but it was a friendly game and the guy is a beginner).
hunters spear functions as a bolt throw regarding he rules, but afaik it has to mention it causes D3 wounds like it mentions its S and the fac that it ignores armor saves

Yeah thats correct, it doesnt do D3 wounds, the only thing that makes it similar to a BT is that it pierces ranks (and ignore armor but thats hardly BT specific).

 

[Wolf]

True, it says in one of the FAQ's that it doesn't do D3 wounds. Shame, Beasts would rock even more

 

[n810]

Erians your good at mathammer...

Statisticly how many double shooting Skinks would it take
to kill a Treeman in one turn ?

 

[erians]

Erians your good at mathammer...

Statisticly how many double shooting Skinks would it take
to kill a Treeman in one turn ?

82 double shots (164 shots by 82 skinks).

 

[Bibamus]

my god, i tryed to calculate that and i got 80 (well for 5.7 wounds). i think i'm getting the hang of the math in this game, and also:
thats a lot of kinks

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Good contributions erians, except that as you pointed out, 25 skinks can indeed "hold up" dryads, as you pointed out they only get 5.557 kills, skink get 3 ranks banner outnumber, that puts them at losing by about .5 each turn. Unfortunately for the wood elves, dice is dice, sometimes they'll win by 3 sometimes they'll lose by one or even two when things don't go their way. Some turns the dryads will lose and some times they'll win big. More importantly is that if you use a toad BSB like you always should under every condition ever. (a point I never fail to make) being near it means those skinks aren't going anywhere until they are outnumbered, which is gonna take a few turns. That will be plenty of time for the cavalry to arrive, or maybe a lone scar vet with the maiming shield or the scimitar or frog poison or something. Not to mention, fleeing does not automatically mean you are run down, and if they do pursue, make sure they have to pursue into something horrible like saurus.

Also, for a guy that always runs toad, I REALLY don't like to rely on magic to get rid of crisis situations, because the old ones know that shit happens, miscasts occur, people carry 4 scrolls, or they just lob dice at that one spell. Personally, against wood elves I would always just go fire, unless they were utterly spamming tree creatures. The elves themselves are super vulnerable to those crappy flame pew since they have very little armor, and there are lots of expensive and fragile choices like all their cavalry, their archers, eternal guard, anything without tattoos is fair game.

Last time I had to deal with tree man, I used 15 skinks, stalled for 2 turns, then got some Cold One cavalry to flank charge it and break it's ass. (BBOC helped) That sucker is big and expensive and is worth throwing that much at. Toad was busy burning archers and throwing wall of fire at eternal guard.