Salamander
Sammy the Squib
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So what do people think of the new Daemons?
Will they pose the lizardmen any troubles?
Will they pose the lizardmen any troubles?
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7th Ed. Daemons of chaos?
- Thread starter Sammy the Squib
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Skink
lizardlover
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if you use a good army and good tactics i think you will do alright ...
BUT!(theres always a but)
they probably prove a problem if your playing big games.
Or if they are using a variety of types of demons.
BUT!(theres always a but)
they probably prove a problem if your playing big games.
Or if they are using a variety of types of demons.
Skink
Supersteggy
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If the special rules for the fantasy deamons are like the rules for the 40k deamons they should be popping up real close on their first turn and if positioned correctly could get a lot of second turn charges.
Won't know for sure until u play them
Won't know for sure until u play them
Kroxigor
SohCahToa
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@Supersteggy: Thankfully, fantasy has never used the 40k method of having entire regiments of units popping out of no where. (That said, the daemon list for 40k will also work differently than previous 40k demon rules).
@Skinkyone: Would you care to elaborate
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IMO, the demons list is just one of those wild and crazy super-fun-time lists that was made to boost sales really quickly but add little substance. If you look through the list, the options for a god-specific army list are just as limited (if not more limited) than the SoC Daemon list (not including the option to take beasts and mortals of course). Looking through the units, generally speaking they have cool options, but they are only cool, and generally not entriely useful. Take for example plaguebearers, who lost the -1 to hit and gained...poison (without much of a points change). Now this is not to say that there are not some ridiculously powerful choices (the tzeentch steal spell comes to mind), but this is one of the lists, like OK, that looks great on paper but doesnt translate into sucess on the table.
That said, Ive played only one game against them (a friend got a hold of the leaked copy), and he tried to a WAC list without any previous experience with it. Once people figure out the 2 steam tank/war altar equivelant in the Daemons list, we'll see how nerfed or overpowered it is.
@Skinkyone: Would you care to elaborate
. IMO, the demons list is just one of those wild and crazy super-fun-time lists that was made to boost sales really quickly but add little substance. If you look through the list, the options for a god-specific army list are just as limited (if not more limited) than the SoC Daemon list (not including the option to take beasts and mortals of course). Looking through the units, generally speaking they have cool options, but they are only cool, and generally not entriely useful. Take for example plaguebearers, who lost the -1 to hit and gained...poison (without much of a points change). Now this is not to say that there are not some ridiculously powerful choices (the tzeentch steal spell comes to mind), but this is one of the lists, like OK, that looks great on paper but doesnt translate into sucess on the table.
That said, Ive played only one game against them (a friend got a hold of the leaked copy), and he tried to a WAC list without any previous experience with it. Once people figure out the 2 steam tank/war altar equivelant in the Daemons list, we'll see how nerfed or overpowered it is.
They are pretty cool, but they have a big BIG problem( and thats why i will never start this army).If they lose the combat resolution by a great number, they start dieyng from nothing.
EASU STRATEGY AGAINST DAEMONS:get two units of skinks scouts and put them in the middle ofa forest.that way the flamers cannot hide on there.start marching whit the saurus and let get charged.If you can survive for 1 turn.get the skinks and charge them in the rear and flank.In combat res. you are going to get outnunber, maybe banner, 2 points for rear and one more for flank.Thius should make them lose the break test and start dying from nothing.
EASU STRATEGY AGAINST DAEMONS:get two units of skinks scouts and put them in the middle ofa forest.that way the flamers cannot hide on there.start marching whit the saurus and let get charged.If you can survive for 1 turn.get the skinks and charge them in the rear and flank.In combat res. you are going to get outnunber, maybe banner, 2 points for rear and one more for flank.Thius should make them lose the break test and start dying from nothing.
Saurus
Nosreme
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Ychig0 said:They are pretty cool, but they have a big BIG problem( and thats why i will never start this army).If they lose the combat resolution by a great number, they start dieyng from nothing.
EASU STRATEGY AGAINST DAEMONS:get two units of skinks scouts and put them in the middle ofa forest.that way the flamers cannot hide on there.start marching whit the saurus and let get charged.If you can survive for 1 turn.get the skinks and charge them in the rear and flank.In combat res. you are going to get outnunber, maybe banner, 2 points for rear and one more for flank.Thius should make them lose the break test and start dying from nothing.
Considering how nasty they can be in combat, however, this isn't as huge a problem as you think it is. Coming from a player that has always played undead armies, that isn't a huge deal. Also keep in mind that they are also immune to psychology, will never break, and have magical attacks with a 5+ ward.
No, the real weakness of the DoC army is that their troops are very elite and expensive, much like high elves. So there will be fewer units on the table than what you might have. Second, they are mostly T3 with no armor save for most of the core, and only Khorne characters have any kind of armor at all (save blood curshers). So shooty armies will have a field day with them. Treat them a lot like you would a HE army, without all the bolt throwers, and you will do ok.
Kroxigor
SohCahToa
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@Nosreme: Ychig0 does make a point, although it is not as big a problem as he might stress it to be. The instability tests taken by daemons is much more deadly for them, as generally speaking they cannot rely upon the large numbers and re-/summoning abilities inherent to the TK and VC. So every time that a daemon regiment looses a model, it is going to hurt a lot more as it will have a greater effect on the CR and there is no way to bring that model back.
Also, it really depends on the type of army fielded as to whether the shooting army will have a field day. Yes, against a standard daemon list a shooty army will do well. However, the speed at which a slannesh army could skirt ranked units and hit artillery and missile troops puts woodies and druchii to shame. Alternatively, although I have not seen such a list in action yet, I would imagine that a plaguebearer-heavy army led by a herald could deal with shooting rather well with T4, a 5+ ward, and a regen. save (and on paper it looks to be impossible to kill one of those beasts of nurgle with shooting).
@Ychig0: That said, charging skinks into a unit of daemons is just going to ensure that they win combat by providing ranks that otherwise would not be able to attack WS2 T2 targets.
Having just played against the daemon army, I can confidently say that it is really difficult to come up with an effective strategy, unless one knows the heroes choices of the opponent. At 90 pts, the Masque is going to be almost ubiquitus, but beyond this the choice of heralds is going to affect what kind of army a Daemon player takes. For example, against an opponent who has taken 1-2 slannesh heralds, chariots are a necessity as the impact hits will get in before the ASF (similarly the gleaming pendent may actually be useful).
Beyond this, I have found that one general rule of thumb is that annoyance units such as flyers, chamo skinks, and fast cav. are not as useful against Daemons armies. Skull totems (which prevent march blocking) are a common sight on multiple units of juggers and bloodletters, making march blocking a great deal less effective. Similarly, the slannesh totem which only allows a charged unit to hold means that pleasureseekers can clear away a great deal of enemy flying/fast cav. I found this out the hard way as my terries were torn to pieces resulting from a 19" charge which I could not flee from.
Also, it really depends on the type of army fielded as to whether the shooting army will have a field day. Yes, against a standard daemon list a shooty army will do well. However, the speed at which a slannesh army could skirt ranked units and hit artillery and missile troops puts woodies and druchii to shame. Alternatively, although I have not seen such a list in action yet, I would imagine that a plaguebearer-heavy army led by a herald could deal with shooting rather well with T4, a 5+ ward, and a regen. save (and on paper it looks to be impossible to kill one of those beasts of nurgle with shooting).
@Ychig0: That said, charging skinks into a unit of daemons is just going to ensure that they win combat by providing ranks that otherwise would not be able to attack WS2 T2 targets.
Having just played against the daemon army, I can confidently say that it is really difficult to come up with an effective strategy, unless one knows the heroes choices of the opponent. At 90 pts, the Masque is going to be almost ubiquitus, but beyond this the choice of heralds is going to affect what kind of army a Daemon player takes. For example, against an opponent who has taken 1-2 slannesh heralds, chariots are a necessity as the impact hits will get in before the ASF (similarly the gleaming pendent may actually be useful).
Beyond this, I have found that one general rule of thumb is that annoyance units such as flyers, chamo skinks, and fast cav. are not as useful against Daemons armies. Skull totems (which prevent march blocking) are a common sight on multiple units of juggers and bloodletters, making march blocking a great deal less effective. Similarly, the slannesh totem which only allows a charged unit to hold means that pleasureseekers can clear away a great deal of enemy flying/fast cav. I found this out the hard way as my terries were torn to pieces resulting from a 19" charge which I could not flee from.
Aye Demons are pretty solid, although a mono-god list is at a bit of a disadvantage. Like Nurgle for instance.. tough to kill, but they hardly ever kill anything themselves. I watched a few games with a guy and his Nurgle list and it was just awkwardly funny. Another friend of mine plays all Khorne.. alot more potent and killy, but like stated above few models. He played a Slann list and got pretty bloodied.. winning only because the Lizard player made a small mistake. The Slann magic'd Skulltaker to death first turn and his Skink screens shot his Bloodletters to hell. It was a real good game.
Overall I think you Lizards will fair decently enough against demons. They're pretty solid all around, so it's hard to specifically say they are weak in such and such an area. My advice is try shooting and magic, and don't try to go toe to toe with their characters, you'll probably lose.
Overall I think you Lizards will fair decently enough against demons. They're pretty solid all around, so it's hard to specifically say they are weak in such and such an area. My advice is try shooting and magic, and don't try to go toe to toe with their characters, you'll probably lose.