8th Ed. cupped hands vs throne of vines

[Varaconn]

Hay I'm playing Hiv0r from the forum next week he is running light with cupped hands and I'm going life. I'm not sure if this has been faqed or posted before what happens if I have vines up and he pass's a miss cast to my slann do I get to roll a D6 to see if I ignore the result?
Thanks for your help

 

[Hiv0r]

No you don't because you suffer the effects of the miscast you do not actually suffer a miscast:

The wording from the book:

'On a 2+ the miscast is ignored and if there is an enemy wizard within line of sight [b]he will suffer its effects[/b]'.

Note, suffer its effects not suffers a miscast.

Q. When using Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, do you hand over
the miscast before or after determining the result of the Miscast table?
(p102)
A. After.

 

[Conifer]

I don't recall the exact wordings so I may be a bit off here but I think both effects occur at the same time.

As suchs, and because it is your turn, you will get to choose what happens first.

So you can pass the Miscast to your opponent before rolling for Throne of Vines, wich means you get to roll the dice for Cupped Hands and if you roll a 1, then you can still use Vines in your Slann and ignore the miscast.

 

[BEEGfrog]

If your opponent transfers the results of the miscast you are stuffed, it's going to happen.

If you have life and cupped hands then I would normally expect the ignore from the spell to happen first as the decision to transfer using cupped hands happens after the result of the miscast has been determined.

 

[HoverBoy]

According by accepted RAW:
When you miscast and have both throne and hands, since it's your turn you get to choose in what order to use them.
When the enmy miscasts, and transfers the effects of the miscast on you throne can't be used, as it works when the wizard micasts not when he suffers the effect of a miscast.

 

[BEEGfrog]

According by accepted RAW:
When you miscast and have both throne and hands, since it's your turn you get to choose in what order to use them.
When the enmy miscasts, and transfers the effects of the miscast on you throne can't be used, as it works when the wizard micasts not when he suffers the effect of a miscast.

I would argue that you couldn't wait until after the miscast result has been determined to use the throne but before the result has been determined you are free to use either. I see no reason you couldn't use both if one failed.

I would always use throne first because it isn't one use and because I think it would be too late to use the throne after the miscast result had been determined (when the cupped hands takes effect).

 

[HoverBoy]

I would argue that you couldn't wait until after the miscast result has been determined to use the throne but before the result has been determined you are free to use either. I see no reason you couldn't use both if one failed.

I would always use throne first because it isn't one use and because I think it would be too late to use the throne after the miscast result had been determined (when the cupped hands takes effect).

Well by extreemly strict RAW, throne is used before the result is determined and hands after, but i was mugged in the "rules help" section of the forum for saying this so i try to keep it to miself.

 

[rammramm]

The way I see it, there are a number of steps that need to be followed when a miscast is caused.

1. A miscast happens, use your choice of miscast-avoiding item/skill/magic here (i.e roll for cupped hands).

2. Determin the result of the miscast.

3. Cupped hands second effect kicks in giving you the chanse to pass over the effect that you yourself did not suffer.


Since I dont see cuped hands as doing the ignoring and the passing over at the same time (since you roll on the miscast table after the miscast is suffered and you then pass over the result) I dont think that an opponent can use magic or skills that happen when the miscast is caused.

 

[HoverBoy]

FAQ clearly states cupped hands are used after the result has been determined.

 

[Hiv0r]

Yeah I quoted the FAQ in my first post

 

[rammramm]

What i say is that cuped hands work both before and after the result is decided.

It ignores the miscast before and then hands over the miscast after the result is decided.

The FAQ also seems to suggest this soloution in its use of the words:

When using Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, do you hand over
the miscast before or after determining the result of the Miscast table?

All of the items effects are not happening after the determining of the result, only the handing over effect. Otherwise the FAQ would say something along the lines with "when do you roll for cupped hands" or "does the effects of cupped hands happen before or after...".