7th Ed. Combat 2K pt army vs Empire or Brett

[Xipe-Topec]

I'm going to be playing against some Empire or Bretts, and I'm trying to work up my first 7th edition list. I'm fairly new to Warhammer, and I haven't worked with Magic before, so I realize this is a magicless army. I haven't worked out a magical list yet. I'm going to give a pure fighting list a workout. I would very much appreciate any suggestions!

7TH EDITION LIZARDMAN ARMY , Total 1997
Unit 1: Saurus Oldblood with Blade of Revered Tzunki, Glyph Necklace, Enchanted Shield, Carnosaur


Unit 2: Saurus Scar-Veteran with Burning Blade o Chotek, Charm of the Jaguar, Light Armor, Shield


Unit 3: Saurus Warriors x13 with Spears
Unit 4: Saurus Warriors x13 with Spears
Unit 5: Saurus Warriors x13 with Spears
Unit 6: Saurus Warriors x13 with Spears

Unit 7: Ancient Stegadon
Skink Chief with Stegadon War-Spear

Unit 8: Kroxigor x2
Skinks x16

Unit 9: Kroxigor x2
Skinks x16

My Oldblood on a carnosaur is aimed at taking on armored cavalry with his weapon that ignores armor. He should also be a good hero killer for the same reason.
Ditto for the Scar-Vet who can fly into a charge. His weapons gives -2 to armor saves.
These guys (especially the Scar Vet) can also go hunting for cannons and stuff when fighting Empire.

The Ancient Steg and the 4 smallish blocks of saurus warriors will be my up-the-middle anvils. The Steg also has some shooting potential as long as he isn't marching, charging, or in combat. (I'm thinking a first turn march followed by a walk will let the Warriors catch up (two marches) and maybe give me a chance to get off a bunch of darts - 4D6 poison shots!)

The two skink-krox units will be my flanking units to either protect my warriors/steg wall, or do flanking attacks. The Oldblood/Carnosaur and the flying Scar-Vet should be able to do the same, should the need or opportunity arrive.

That's my general plan. Any thoughts on the list or strategy?

 

[Nosreme]

If you are going against an army with a lot of knights or heavily armored folks, a unit of 3 salamanders will serve you well. Try to fit a unit into your list.

 

[Vagrant Benthos]

I know you have noted your lack of magic in this list, but a complete absence of magical defense is worrisome. If your army was composed entirely of fast moving units and focused on getting into combat really fast and eliminating the magic threat with surgical precision, I would applaud your efforts and say go for it. But, as it stands your list doesn't have that speed. Your foot sloggers will mosey up slowly and will be forced to weather the storm of lead (Empire) or take the charges from every lance of knights (Brets). You also don't have any bait units or redirection units. The bret lances will slam right into your units and plow through them. Against Brets your ancient stegadon will not get to use his 2D6+1 impact hits since he will be charged first.

So I would encourage you to consider a EOTG. If you are facing Empire since the 5+ ward against missile weapons over 12" away would be very handy. If you are facing Brets then Burning alignment with its no armor save is going to hurt the knights badly. Plus, the skink priest can take a diadem and dispell scroll and can at least provide some magic defense with 5 DD and a scroll. Not the best, but decent to stop the worst spells getting through (see Pit of Shades vs. Saurus or Stegadons).

As suggested Salamanders are also a great threat against heavily armored targets.

Now go forward and further the plans of the Old Ones.

 

[Xipe-Topec]

Ahhh, muchas gracias Vagrant! I adjusted things up a bit. I think I've wound up with a pretty fast army now, and one that has a bit of magic protection.

I pulled out the saurus warrior squads and put in a lvl 2 priest riding an Ancient Stegadon with EotG. I gave him the Diadem of Power and Itxi Grubs. A level 2 wiz isn't going to be threatening too much with his magic on a consistent basis, but I might be able to sneak a spell through, but being able to store an extra two dice for dispelling will be nice.

I was also able to add in a squad of five Cold One Riders with a champion. Nothing has a movement of less than 6 now. Even if he does bring in strong magic or shooting, I should be in decent shape, I hope.

I'm still hoping to be able to get my Jaguar Scar Vet back into his lines right away to take out Empire engines or magic users quickly. I might be able to get my Carnosaur back there pretty quickly too. My Skink/Krox and Cavalry will hopefully be able to screen off or tie up the Brett cavalry. Your excellent suggestion of the EotG will give a nice 5+ ward save or hurt Brett cavalry, depending on the situation. Hopefully the Stegadon and the Skink Chief with Steg Lance will be able to reach the base squads pretty quickly to use their impact hits.

Any suggestions as to whether I should use the Stegadon with the EotG in combat regularly, or should I only use it in really safe combats? (flanking or maybe charging a cannon or something like that)

For the Old Ones

 

[Xipe-Topec]

If you are going against an army with a lot of knights or heavily armored folks, a unit of 3 salamanders will serve you well. Try to fit a unit into your list.

I'm afraid I don't have any Salamanders to use. They look nice though. How big is the template (I don't have one)? 6" long? 8"? It seems that it might be a bit chancy hitting things with it, though the -3 AS sounds nice to take out heavily armored groups like dwarves or knights.

 

[D. Thang]

it's 8 inches, and for the most part, they aren't as chancy as one would think, just angle it right and you should be burning those pesky brets all day

 

[ACe]

No point in taking charm of the jaguar warrior, for it is a bound spell and if you got no other spells, it's most probably not going to work. I recommend you take a skink priest instead of the chief. That will grant you some dispel and 5+ ward save against enemy missiles for your saurus blocks. Also I would cut the skink+kroxigor units to smaller sizes. I'd take four units of 11 skinks + 1 kroxigor.

 

[Xipe-Topec]

ACe- I adjusted my list to add in a priest with an EotG. I hadn't thought of the Jaguar effect now being a spell which can be dispelled. I'll have to carefully set up that spell then - maybe get opponents to use up dispel dice blocking the priest's spells before I spring the Jaguar's spell.

What's the rationale for the multiple smaller skink/krox units? More flanking possibilities? I was thinking that with more skinks per unit, it can take more hits before the kroxigars start taking damage.

 

[Vagrant Benthos]

I was thinking that with more skinks per unit, it can take more hits before the kroxigars start taking damage.

Therein lies my biggest problem with mixed Kroxigor/Skink units. A canny opponent is not going to even try to hurt the Kroxigors (although he/she can attack them once they swing) when he/she can simply wail on the skinks and rack up good dynamic combat res. As I have said elsewhere I haven't field tested the mixed units yet, but on paper I see nothing to encourage me mixing them. I suppose the only pros I can imagine is a way to get Kroxigors into my army without using a Special choice and maxing the unit immune to fear, but those doesn't seem terribly compelling a reasons in my book given the inherent weaknesses I feel exist in the unit.

 

[Xipe-Topec]

Combat res is a danger here, but the lizardmen's cold-blooded rule should help mitigate that. Especially if you have someone with a higher Leadership around that could lend their leadership. The 2 Krox's six S4 attacks with great weapons will help even it back up a little. I haven't done the math to see what various results would be.

Would breaking the Krox out into their own unit maybe work better then? That way the skinks could do a pure skirmishing function and wouldn't be such a loss if overrun.

But, I'm thinking of the combined unit as a survivability tool to get the Krox up to the battle lines against ranged fire and then as a bit of a shield against rank-and-file combat wounds. Just based on the stats, I think 16 skinks and 2 krox up against equal points of Greatswords, State Troop, or Brett. Men-at-Arms would come out well, even if they've taken some ranged fire on the way up.