KoW Clash of Kings 2016 - 2000 Points

[BAE]

I'm getting back into miniature wargaming, and haven't yet played a game of KoW. Mantic have rather nicely set up a tournament in October that I would like to participate in, so would really appreciate thoughts, help and ideas from the fellow Salamander players of Lustria-Online for an army list. On Wednesday I'm starting to go to a gaming club in Nottingham to watch and give myself a crash course on the game, and I'm thinking with that and any support received on here I can hit my target of winning at least 2 games out of 6!

Anyway, here goes:

Heros:
Clan Lord on Winged Fire Drake w/ Ensorcelled Armour
Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman & Heal Surge
Mounted Mage-Priest w/ Surge & Myrddin's Amulet of the Fire-heart
Mounted Herald w/ Diadem of Dragon-kind
Ghekkotah Skylord w/ Mace of Crushing
Ghekkotah Clutch Warden

Monsters:
Fire Drake
2 x Ankylodon Battle Platform
Lekelidon
Greater Fire Elemental

Hordes:
1 x Salamander Primes w/ Shields
1 2 x Fire Elementals

Regiments:
2 x Ghekkotah Warriors
1 x Ceremonial Guard w/ Blessing of the Gods
1 x Kaisenor Lancers w/ Maccwar's Potion of the Caterpillar
2 x Salamander Primes w/ Shields
1 x Salamander Ancients w/ Two-Handed Weapons
1 x Salamander Primes w/ Two-Handed Weapons

Troops:
2 x Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Bows & Chameleon Cloaks

Exactly 2000pts. Thoughts?

p.s. I've not yet bought all the units, so advice on here has a strong possibility of shaping what I buy!

p.p.s. I will edit this first post as I take on board ideas from posts below.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I'm getting back into miniature wargaming, and haven't yet played a game of KoW. Mantic have rather nicely set up a tournament in October that I would like to participate in, so would really appreciate thoughts, help and ideas from the fellow Salamander players of Lustria-Online for an army list. On Wednesday I'm starting to go to a gaming club in Nottingham to watch and give myself a crash course on the game, and I'm thinking with that and any support received on here I can hit my target of winning at least 2 games out of 6!

Anyway, here goes:

Heros:
Clan Lord on Fire Drake
Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman
Ghekkotah Clutch Warden

Monsters:
Fire Drake
2 x Ankylodon Battle Platform

Regiments:
2 x Salamander Primes w/ Shields
1 x Salamander Primes w/ Double-handed weapons
2 x Ghekkotah Warriors

Troops:
2 x Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Chameleon Cloaks

Exactly 2000pts. Thoughts?

p.s. I've not yet bought all the units, so advice on here has a strong possibility of shaping what I buy!

Ok I will go one by one into all the units, lets go:

First nothe that you have 5 regiments but 3 Heroes and 3 Monsters (not a legal build as it is)

- Clan Lord on Fire Drake

He is a beast, but if you are going to take him, slap a magic item on him (Ensorcelled Armour or Medallion of Life) or he won't be alive much. Also consider giving him wings, it pays of in the end.

- Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman

A must have for me, nothing to say here

- Ghekkotah Clutch Warden

Trust me here don't get him, not worth the points, let me explain myself with a small comparison, I will take a simillar hero from another army, in this case Elves, The Master Hunter. For just 5 points more he has:

- +1 to hit in Combat
- +1 to hit in Shooting
- +1 Nerve
- Elite
- Better weapon (Bow)
- Piercing (1)
- Stealthy
- Vanguard

I think you kind of see what I'm talking about, he is Hugely overcosted.

Take a Skylord, you NEED a Skylord in your life, if you can get two better still.

- Fire Drake

I strongly approve this

- 2 Ankylodon Battle Platform

I'm not sure you should go with two of them, but if you do you need the following: HEAL
Having two ankylodons and not a single source of healing is not taking advantage of their strong points. I would try to get two sources though, one can be the Mage priest you have in there, the other can be a Hearld with a Healing Charm.

- 2 Salamander Primes w/ Shields

Don't get two regiments, take a Horde. Cheaper and you get full advantage of the Pathfinder rule. They shine really well in Horde formation. Also if you get a magic item for them it would be more effective.

- Salamander Primes w/ Double-handed weapons

Not a bad option, but I think you should at least consider the Ancients, they are MUCH better. Give them two handed weapons if you like. But if you still want to take them use them as a flanking unit

- 2 Ghekkotah Warriors

Good as flanking units and to unlock the good stuff, nothing wrong here

- 2 Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Chameleon Cloaks

I like them, they are good to put some wounds on the enemy, place them on a forest and they will be there the whole game.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I would go for somthing like this in a twin-ankylodon build:

- Clan Lord on FLying Drake with Medallion/Armour
- Skylord
- Mage-priest with Heal and Inspiring

- Horde of Primes

- 2 Regiments of Ancients
- 2 Regiments of Ghekkotah

- 2 Akylodon

And you have 160 points at your disposal to round it up as you like. Maybe a Greater Fire Elemental, maybe a troop of hunters with all the options and some magic item, maybe take out the medallion and buy a regiment of Kaysenor Lancers or another mage-priest with heal.... its up to you really.

Also this is just a suggestion. By the way if you want to be sure your army is legal check the online army builder: http://kow2.easyarmy.com/

 

[Crowsfoot]

Trouble with Salamanders is they have so many good options but I came up with this list,

Heros
Clan Lord on Kaisenor Mount with Ensorcelled Armour
Herald
Mage priest with Heal, Surge and Inspiring Talisman
Ghekkotah Skylord with Blade of Slashing
Ghekkotah Skylord with Mace of Crushing

Troop
Ghekkotah Hunters

Regiment
Ancients
Ancients
Kaisenor Lancers with Maccwar's potion of the caterpillar

Horde
Primes with Blessing of the gods
Ghekkotah Warriors

Monster
Lekelidon
Greater Fire Elemental

2000pts

 

[BAE]

Ok I will go one by one into all the units, lets go:

First nothe that you have 5 regiments but 3 Heroes and 3 Monsters (not a legal build as it is)

- Clan Lord on Fire Drake

He is a beast, but if you are going to take him, slap a magic item on him (Ensorcelled Armour or Medallion of Life) or he won't be alive much. Also consider giving him wings, it pays of in the end.

- Mage-Priest w/ Inspiring Talisman

A must have for me, nothing to say here

- Ghekkotah Clutch Warden

Trust me here don't get him, not worth the points, let me explain myself with a small comparison, I will take a simillar hero from another army, in this case Elves, The Master Hunter. For just 5 points more he has:

- +1 to hit in Combat
- +1 to hit in Shooting
- +1 Nerve
- Elite
- Better weapon (Bow)
- Piercing (1)
- Stealthy
- Vanguard

I think you kind of see what I'm talking about, he is Hugely overcosted.

Take a Skylord, you NEED a Skylord in your life, if you can get two better still.

- Fire Drake

I strongly approve this

- 2 Ankylodon Battle Platform

I'm not sure you should go with two of them, but if you do you need the following: HEAL
Having two ankylodons and not a single source of healing is not taking advantage of their strong points. I would try to get two sources though, one can be the Mage priest you have in there, the other can be a Hearld with a Healing Charm.

- 2 Salamander Primes w/ Shields

Don't get two regiments, take a Horde. Cheaper and you get full advantage of the Pathfinder rule. They shine really well in Horde formation. Also if you get a magic item for them it would be more effective.

- Salamander Primes w/ Double-handed weapons

Not a bad option, but I think you should at least consider the Ancients, they are MUCH better. Give them two handed weapons if you like. But if you still want to take them use them as a flanking unit

- 2 Ghekkotah Warriors

Good as flanking units and to unlock the good stuff, nothing wrong here

- 2 Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Chameleon Cloaks

I like them, they are good to put some wounds on the enemy, place them on a forest and they will be there the whole game.

This is really, really helpful! In light of your comments I've switched things round a bit:


Heros:
Clan Lord on Fire Drake w/ Ensorcelled Armour
Ghekkotah Sky Lord w/ Mace of Crushing
Mage-Priest w/ Heal & Inspiring Talisman

Monsters:
Ankylodon Battle Platform
Fire Drake

Hordes:
Salamander Primes w/ Shields

Regiments:
Ancients w/ Two-handed Weapons
2 x Ghekkotah Warriors

Troops:
2 x Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Chameleon Cloaks

That comes to 1830pts, leaving 170pts spare. Annoyingly, I would go for another Ghekkotah Sky Lord to ensure that all the Ghekkotah are inspired and give options for jumping over the enemy to attack from behind, but the monster / hero slots are already taken. Any ideas on how best to spend 170 pts?

 

[BAE]

Trouble with Salamanders is they have so many good options but I came up with this list,

Heros
Clan Lord on Kaisenor Mount with Ensorcelled Armour
Herald
Mage priest with Heal, Surge and Inspiring Talisman
Ghekkotah Skylord with Blade of Slashing
Ghekkotah Skylord with Mace of Crushing

Troop
Ghekkotah Hunters

Regiment
Ancients
Ancients
Kaisenor Lancers with Maccwar's potion of the caterpillar

Horde
Primes with Blessing of the gods
Ghekkotah Warriors

Monster
Lekelidon
Greater Fire Elemental

2000pts

My concern with this would be that you've spent 35 points giving your Mage-Priest 'Surge' when there's only one unit that you can use Surge on. Not only would your M-P would have to stay within range and line of sight of your Greater Fire Elemental throughout the battle, but spending 35pts on something you may only use once or twice seems inefficient. If I was going down the Surge route I think I'd have at least 2 fiery units to give myself options.

 

[Itepixcauh]

This is really, really helpful! In light of your comments I've switched things round a bit:


Heros:
Clan Lord on Fire Drake w/ Ensorcelled Armour
Ghekkotah Sky Lord w/ Mace of Crushing
Mage-Priest w/ Heal & Inspiring Talisman

Monsters:
Ankylodon Battle Platform
Fire Drake

Hordes:
Salamander Primes w/ Shields

Regiments:
Ancients w/ Two-handed Weapons
2 x Ghekkotah Warriors

Troops:
2 x Ghekkotah Hunters w/ Chameleon Cloaks

That comes to 1830pts, leaving 170pts spare. Annoyingly, I would go for another Ghekkotah Sky Lord to ensure that all the Ghekkotah are inspired and give options for jumping over the enemy to attack from behind, but the monster / hero slots are already taken. Any ideas on how best to spend 170 pts?

What you can do is go for a Regiment of Skyriders, same price as the Skylord, and you can actually build both with just one box of Terradon riders. Two for the Regiment and one for the Skylord, you can't really rank three in a 150x50 base really. Another REALLY GOOD option to spend 170 points is a regiment of Kaisenor Lancers or a Regiment of Ancients on Rhinosaurs (scraping 10 points out of one of the Chameleon cloaks, use the uncloaked unit as a shield for the Rhinosaurs. You can run them in front of them to bait charges and protect them)

 

[Itepixcauh]

My concern with this would be that you've spent 35 points giving your Mage-Priest 'Surge' when there's only one unit that you can use Surge on. Not only would your M-P would have to stay within range and line of sight of your Greater Fire Elemental throughout the battle, but spending 35pts on something you may only use once or twice seems inefficient. If I was going down the Surge route I think I'd have at least 2 fiery units to give myself options.

That is exactly what I do, I run a group of greater fire elemental, plus one or two Hordes of Fire Elementals and a MP with Surge, works really well.

 

[BAE]

What you can do is go for a Regiment of Skyriders, same price as the Skylord, and you can actually build both with just one box of Terradon riders. Two for the Regiment and one for the Skylord, you can't really rank three in a 150x50 base really. Another REALLY GOOD option to spend 170 points is a regiment of Kaisenor Lancers or a Regiment of Ancients on Rhinosaurs (scraping 10 points out of one of the Chameleon cloaks, use the uncloaked unit as a shield for the Rhinosaurs. You can run them in front of them to bait charges and protect them)

I was thinking Kaisenor Lancers within a few seconds of my last post! Exactly the right points, and adds a bit of speed that I'm lacking. I might have gone for the Rhinosaur option if I could find any models that I'd be happy to spend my money on, but it looks as though that is going to have to wait until Mantic get their arses in gear.

My concern now is that the majority of my army are flankers, with not that many units (only really the Primes, Ancients and Ankylodon) holding the centre. Flanking is obviously a good tactic, but there is only so much space at the sides! What do you think?

 

[Itepixcauh]

I was thinking Kaisenor Lancers within a few seconds of my last post! Exactly the right points, and adds a bit of speed that I'm lacking. I might have gone for the Rhinosaur option if I could find any models that I'd be happy to spend my money on, but it looks as though that is going to have to wait until Mantic get their arses in gear.

My concern now is that the majority of my army are flankers, with not that many units (only really the Primes, Ancients and Ankylodon) holding the centre. Flanking is obviously a good tactic, but there is only so much space at the sides! What do you think?

I think you have two really solid Anvils, and really nice support, decent shooting, specially in mid game. You also have 2 units that can be used as bait or chaff with not much points thrown away, and that is a really useful tactic. Think about this, the enemy is playing the old stand-off game of not letting you charge, what I do is throw one regiment of Ghekkos nearly in the enemys face, the enemy charges them, destroyes them and then have to face the charge of the nasty things (you have to be careful, put them in a position where the enemy has to decide to charge them or be charged next turn, but not too far away from your own units, so that they won't be able to charge back once the Ghekkos get destroyed, this requires some very anal measuring as the enemy can back up once they rout the ghekkos)

 

[Crowsfoot]

My concern with this would be that you've spent 35 points giving your Mage-Priest 'Surge' when there's only one unit that you can use Surge on. Not only would your M-P would have to stay within range and line of sight of your Greater Fire Elemental throughout the battle, but spending 35pts on something you may only use once or twice seems inefficient. If I was going down the Surge route I think I'd have at least 2 fiery units to give myself options.

Obviously from your comments your a returning veteran and can see wasted points having never gamed before it's really hard to gauge the points system, I thought 35 points would be nothing but I can see from your comments 35 points is a lot to waste on one monster, I need to play more or at least try more builds!

Really glad you have joined up as we now have another experienced gamer playing KOW and helping the forum

 

[BAE]

Obviously from your comments your a returning veteran and can see wasted points having never gamed before

As a fellow Brit, if I didn't know better I would have read that as a rather passive-aggressive comment..!

I'm not exactly that experienced (it's been 13/14 years since I've gamed), and although I think I'm alright at strategy I was not as strong at in-game tactics. I was nowhere near as good at movement as a friend who has started collecting a Kingdoms of Men army, which I always found annoying. But that meant spending more time constructing more synergistic army lists to make up for the handicap.

 

[BAE]

I think you have two really solid Anvils, and really nice support, decent shooting, specially in mid game. You also have 2 units that can be used as bait or chaff with not much points thrown away, and that is a really useful tactic. Think about this, the enemy is playing the old stand-off game of not letting you charge, what I do is throw one regiment of Ghekkos nearly in the enemys face, the enemy charges them, destroyes them and then have to face the charge of the nasty things (you have to be careful, put them in a position where the enemy has to decide to charge them or be charged next turn, but not too far away from your own units, so that they won't be able to charge back once the Ghekkos get destroyed, this requires some very anal measuring as the enemy can back up once they rout the ghekkos)

What units would you recommend sitting behind the Ghekkos? Anything with movement 5 would have to be right up their backside to be able to charge an enemy unit that has subsequently backed up.

 

[Crowsfoot]

As a fellow Brit, if I didn't know better I would have read that as a rather passive-aggressive comment..!

I'm not exactly that experienced (it's been 13/14 years since I've gamed), and although I think I'm alright at strategy I was not as strong at in-game tactics. I was nowhere near as good at movement as a friend who has started collecting a Kingdoms of Men army, which I always found annoying. But that meant spending more time constructing more synergistic army lists to make up for the handicap.

More experienced than me and that's the trouble with forums sometimes words come across wrong.

 

[BAE]

More experienced than me and that's the trouble with forums sometimes words come across wrong.

Ok, we're both British and there's lots of winking going on, so I'm now genuinely confused as to whether the original comment was passive-aggressive or not. It would be so much easier if we were Americans!

 

[Crowsfoot]

Ok, we're both British and there's lots of winking going on, so I'm now genuinely confused as to whether the original comment was passive-aggressive or not. It would be so much easier if we were Americans!

Then you would be genuinely aggressive passively

 

[BAE]

Then you would be genuinely aggressive passively

That did nothing to diffuse the Schrödinger's cat-like fractiousness of this situation.

 

[Itepixcauh]

What units would you recommend sitting behind the Ghekkos? Anything with movement 5 would have to be right up their backside to be able to charge an enemy unit that has subsequently backed up.

Not really, think about this, the Ghekkos are 3 inches deep, the enemy can back up a max of 3 inches, so that makes 6 inches. Charging range of a Salamander unit is 10 inches. that leaves you a marging of 4 inches.

Imagine the enemy is positioned 13 inches away from you and has a movement of 6, you have to move your ghekkos at least 4 inches forwards, so that even if the enemy backs up 3 inches you are still at 12 inches from him and can charge him. You can go 4,5 inches if you wish just to make sure. What you can do know to ensure a multicharge into his unit is this:

- Move the ghekkos forwards
- Move the Salamander/ Ancients that are on the sides of the ghekkos sideways into the space the ghekkos were a moment before.

With that situation in mind the enemy has to charge you, otherwise they will be charged next turn and locked into combat, so basicly a sitting duck. So he charges you and routs you, even if he backs up and gets lucky (3 inches) he would be at a max of 7,5 inches from your battle line and exposed.

Another scenario is that your enemy can't rout the ghekkos but wavers them, well in that case the outcome depends on how wide the enemy unit is. if it is wider than the ghekkos, not really a big deal as you would have enough space on the sides to charge with the second line, if it is the same size then you aren't in the best position but he is in a much worse, as his battle line is no longer solid.

Get this, because is the most important thing to know about KoW, the Movement phase is where you win or loose a game.

 

[Itepixcauh]

That did nothing to diffuse the Schrödinger's cat-like fractiousness of this situation.

You guys are killing me, too much like a Monty Python Sketch for me

 

[Crowsfoot]

You guys are killing me, too much like a Monty Python Sketch for me

Were both being serious, well I think we are.