8th Ed. Chief on Steg

[dreitman]

I couldn't find any discussion on this so here it goes... please redirect if i missed it.


With the new end time rules where you can have up to 50% of your points in heroes and lords I started strategizing how I could take advantage of this. I realized that skink chiefs are a hero choise and they can take a stegadon or ancient stegadon as a mount. Normally a steg would populate your special or rare points but with so many points available in heroes why not place it there. Here are the benefits that I see as well a questions:

1> improved ballistic skill !!! That large bow on a steg can deal some damage and has a descent range. but when maned by a regular skink I have fireworks stashed for when i actually ever succeed at hitting something. But with the chief aiming it I have a 33% improved chance of success. Same goes for one of the blowpipes on an ancient. In the last couple games I've played this I've actually been effective during the shooting phase.

2> Gain all the benefits of the "Ridden Monsters" rules. So now we have a 5+ skink save on the steg for ranged attacks. If a skink is hit I think wound is randomized between the normal crew and chief, but I'm not positive on this.

3> If the chief is killed but crew still remains I don't believe a roll on the monster reaction table is needed. Vise versa, if the steg is killed i believe the crew goes with it but your chief still remains in play.

4> In close combat you now have a few more effective attacks.

5> Couldn't find anything specific for this. You cannot place you chief+steg inside another unit but do you gain the 4+ look out sir if within 4" of another unit?

I welcome any thoughts on this combo... I think with this setup we might have a descent mobile artillery piece.

 

[Scalenex]

1> improved ballistic skill !!! That large bow on a steg can deal some damage and has a descent range. but when maned by a regular skink I have fireworks stashed for when i actually ever succeed at hitting something. But with the chief aiming it I have a 33% improved chance of success. Same goes for one of the blowpipes on an ancient. In the last couple games I've played this I've actually been effective during the shooting phase.

Back when we used the seventh edition book under eighth edition rules, the FAQ said that the Great Bow and Giant Blowpipes are always fired with the BS of the Skink crew. Because we are still waiting on the 8th ed book FAQ, this is theoretically up in the air, but most players grandfather in the FAQ for the old book on this topic.

2> Gain all the benefits of the "Ridden Monsters" rules. So now we have a 5+ skink save on the steg for ranged attacks. If a skink is hit I think wound is randomized between the normal crew and chief, but I'm not positive on this.

You are correct for BS based shooting. This sadly does not help against template based shooting, which sadly includes cannons and stone throwers. Both rider and Steggy take take the full hit. Now they have to roll to wound for both so you have a slim chance of the Skink Chief surviving the death of the Steggy. You can then have the Skink Chief run away and hide denying your opponent the victory points, in theory at least. Still not quite a rider save.

Also, the Skink Chief would only get a +1 bonus to his armor save so he'd be relatively fragile against BS shooting that wouldn't phase a Steggy.

3> If the chief is killed but crew still remains I don't believe a roll on the monster reaction table is needed. Vise versa, if the steg is killed i believe the crew goes with it but your chief still remains in play.

Yes, since the howdah crew is part of the Steggy's profile they cannot take a monster reaction test and you can salvage the points if the Skink chief survives the Steggy's death somehow.

4> In close combat you now have a few more effective attacks.

Indeed. Skink Chiefs are dirt cheap enough that I think this is valid.

5> Couldn't find anything specific for this. You cannot place you chief+steg inside another unit but do you gain the 4+ look out sir if within 4" of another unit?

Yes, no look out sir for a Monster riding character.

I welcome any thoughts on this combo... I think with this setup we might have a descent mobile artillery piece.

Without a meta clearly alowing you to use the Chiefs Ballistic Skill, they don't work well as a mobile artillery piece.

With the 50% Hero allowance a Skink Chief on a Stegadon allows you to have a potential Steggy upgrade and to field Ancient Stegadons that don't take up your Rare allotment (I'm fielding a Skink Priest on an EOTG Steggy for a similar reason soon) and Skink Chiefs on Stegadons can be used as serviceable 18 inch BSBs with the right defensive gear

 

[dreitman]

Skink Chiefs on Stegadons can be used as serviceable 18 inch BSBs with the right defensive gear

Yes, forgot to mention that. I did use my skink chief as an 18" BSB in the last game I played to great effect. A hard won victory over high elves I might add.

the FAQ said that the Great Bow and Giant Blowpipes are always fired with the BS of the Skink crew.

Now I'm wishing I never posted this... Ignorance was bliss... I feel like how I felt when I learned predatory fighter attacks don't apply to supporting attacks.

 

[phantom567]

I am thinking about doing the same thing. Mainly for the other tricksters helm thing to make them re-roll wards from the impact hit of the stags. I usually run 3 together as just a massive recking squad (1 skink priest on ancient, 2 regular ancients). I might switch to the skink chief instead just for the extra hitting power.

I have a crazy idea to run an all skink and stag army. All characters on skinks lead by Mazdamundi.(Sorry I know my spelling is terrible.) But this is a crazy idea I may never use.

 

[Ixt]

Skink Chief, Steg, Sharpened Horns, Warrior Bane, Potion of Strength. Hunt lone characters, hunt monsters, or even characters riding monsters. Have a ball grinding them into dust (made even easier by a Skink Priest w/ Beasts).

Not the most competitive choice, but certainly fun and often effective.

 

[Fhanados]

Back when we used the seventh edition book under eighth edition rules, the FAQ said that the Great Bow and Giant Blowpipes are always fired with the BS of the Skink crew. Because we are still waiting on the 8th ed book FAQ, this is theoretically up in the air, but most players grandfather in the FAQ for the old book on this topic.

I don't really think this needs to be FAQ'd other than to put this argument to rest forever. I think it's pretty clear that the Chief cannot use his BS to fire the weapons. The rule specifically states weapons are fired by the “Skink Crew”, the stats of which are listed in the Stegadon’s profile. Chiefs replace a single Skink Crew model in the Howdah, but he is still a Chief, not a “Skink Crew”.

I'm a bit sad that GW didn't keep the bonus howdah save - it would make skinks on stegs much more viable (and thus let me cram more of them into a list!).

 

[kduncan145]

Does putting a BSB on a steg increase it's reroll range to 18"? I thought only the inspiring presence from the general does that. I'm not seeing it in the rulebook or FAQs. Please tell me I am wrong. I could use the extra distance for the rerolls.

 

[Scalenex]

Does putting a BSB on a steg increase it's reroll range to 18"? I thought only the inspiring presence from the general does that. I'm not seeing it in the rulebook or FAQs. Please tell me I am wrong. I could use the extra distance for the rerolls.

On page 107, the General entry specifically says they get an 18 inch range and the BSB entry does not include a parallel entry, BUT on page 72, the rules for Large Target explicitly give the 18 inch range to both Generals AND BSBs.

They both get the rule in writing, General's get it twice.

 

[D4EMON]

Back when we used the seventh edition book under eighth edition rules, the FAQ said that the Great Bow and Giant Blowpipes are always fired with the BS of the Skink crew. Because we are still waiting on the 8th ed book FAQ, this is theoretically up in the air, but most players grandfather in the FAQ for the old book on this topic.

I don't really think this needs to be FAQ'd other than to put this argument to rest forever. I think it's pretty clear that the Chief cannot use his BS to fire the weapons. The rule specifically states weapons are fired by the “Skink Crew”, the stats of which are listed in the Stegadon’s profile. Chiefs replace a single Skink Crew model in the Howdah, but he is still a Chief, not a “Skink Crew”.

I'm sorry I have to disagree. The Lizardmen book states "... can be taken as a ridden monster for a Skink chief or Skink priest who replaces one of the Skink crew." It does not say model so I would have to argue that they Skink chief or priest become part of the crew and since you use the highest BS in the crew you would use their BS to fire.

 

[Fhanados]

That doesn't change the fact that he is a "Skink Chief", not a "Skink Crew". The Chief or Priest replaces one of the "Skink Crew' - he does not become a "Skink Crew" himself.

Under the entry for Giant Bow and Giant Blowpipe it says one of the "Skink Crew" may fire the steg weapon.

Then of course there's precedent set by the last books FAQ saying that they couldn't, and since then the rules surrounding steg crew/characters have become clearer in my opinion.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I would really like it if they COULD use the Howdah weapon, but it's just one of those things our book seems full of (like Predatory Fighter in second rank - which I also consider pretty cut and dry) which could go either way and I'd rather be prepared to do without than build a list, tactic or idea around something that can disappear depending on someone else's (completely valid) interpretation of the rules.

 

[Sebbs]

The way the dark elves Scourgerunner Chariot works:

• Ravager Harpoon, basically a bolt thrower.
  It can be manned by a High Beastmaster character.
  It's specified under the Equipment (Chariot): and not under Equipment (Crew):.

As for the case with the Stegadon, both the giant bow and the blowpipes are under the Equipment (Skink Crew): entry.

Now I'm not saying these are rules, but it might give some indication on how a FAQ on this matter would turn out.

Edit: And the High Beastmaster "replaces one of the chariot's crew" just like the Skink Cheif.


Sebbs