Tutorial Carnosour Tactica (including dual Carno Tactica)

[ZaGreekie]

Have you thought about running a unit of Razordons jsin conjunction with the Carnosaurs? They can screen your dinos from cannons and take charges relatively well, allowing your carno's to counter-charge once the Razordons close ranks.

You could also consider Egg of Quango instead of the crown on your OldBlood. It is triggered at the beginning of the combat and resolved against the unit, so can generate a bunch of combat res to help out with challenges etc. even more.

Carnosaurs are definitely something I'm wanting to use. My problem is doing without the slann... I guess it's a matter of trading utility for raw hitting power...

I have not considerd the razadons ill have to give it a try.

I have had to many bad experiences with fleeing due to combat res that I cannot bring myself to remove the crown from my gen.

Also playing without a slann is not as hard as it sounds personally I enjoy it I'm tired of rolling double ones on my winds of magic. Or a 6 and a 1 and having the enemy channel 2 dice and me sitting there like a idiot.

I personally enjoy betting my game on how I can make use of my carnos as they are more "fun" to use in my humble opinion.

 

[Cragglehatch]

As a fan of the Carnosaur, this was a very encouraging read .

Do you have any thoughts on the Carnosaur in a 1.5k point game? :O I'm new and don't have an army yet, so it'll take me a long time to reach 1k points total, but 1.5k is my next big milestone.

I did the math and it looks impossible to me to take TWO Carnosaurs in a 1.5k game unless my only magic is in the form of a dinky little naked lvl 1 skink priest. That seems like it's just asking for trouble, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. I haven't even played a game of Fantasy; I only know that the magic phase is apparently really important and that you at least need Skink Priests if you're not taking a Slann. :O

If I can't take dual Canosaurs in a 1.5k pt game, what are your thoughts on just a lone Carnosaur? It seems really risky to me; but I'm so tempted by the promise of awesomeness and badassery. >_<

Thanks! ^_^

 

[ZaGreekie]

As a fan of the Carnosaur, this was a very encouraging read .

Do you have any thoughts on the Carnosaur in a 1.5k point game? :O I'm new and don't have an army yet, so it'll take me a long time to reach 1k points total, but 1.5k is my next big milestone.

I did the math and it looks impossible to me to take TWO Carnosaurs in a 1.5k game unless my only magic is in the form of a dinky little naked lvl 1 skink priest. That seems like it's just asking for trouble, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. I haven't even played a game of Fantasy; I only know that the magic phase is apparently really important and that you at least need Skink Priests if you're not taking a Slann. :O

If I can't take dual Canosaurs in a 1.5k pt game, what are your thoughts on just a lone Carnosaur? It seems really risky to me; but I'm so tempted by the promise of awesomeness and badassery. >_<

Thanks! ^_^

Well it depends on your mentality honestly. in 2500pts tournament games i went with a lvl1 and a lvl2 xD

Personally i would play with 2 and no mages at all in 1500 just because im crazy xD but i think the more "competitive" solution would be 1 carno 1 cowboy and a nice lvl2 mage.

The nice thing about lower points is you find less and less cannons, at 2500pts its easy to find 2 or 3 Cannons in a TAC list. but at 1500 your maybe looking at 1. in which case a charmed sheild saves you first turn, and second turn your should be in combat already.

One thing if you dont take a slann you MUST plann your anti mage, thats why i have 3 units of Rippers, they ARE my anti magic. because 40% of the time the enemy Lvl4 mage is dead.

The key to keeping carnos alive is have the enemy worryed about somthing els more then the carno. i.e. Rippers about to charge and kill your mage etc

 

[lbisson]

How does this list work against Vampire Counts? Seems like you are counting on Terror as a large part of the strategy, which is pretty cool, but against units that are immune to psychology won't work very well. I have plenty of Undead in my local meta and was curious about your experience.

 

[ZaGreekie]

How does this list work against Vampire Counts? Seems like you are counting on Terror as a large part of the strategy, which is pretty cool, but against units that are immune to psychology won't work very well. I have plenty of Undead in my local meta and was curious about your experience.

In the tournoment i did not use Tarror at all, thoes where more aftertoughts, and also i whent up against Ogers, Tomkings and lizardmen, all of which are not effected by terror (we all know that we laugh at panic tests with cold blooded LD9)

You just need to focuse on useing the other elements of the strategy. personally i think it works better vs undead (except the vampire count shrieking list) because it means your carno has higher initiative then them most of the time. same with the Rappirs, so i focued on taking out the general if posible with the Rappirs and then just hitting flanks with the carno.

but due to them being unstable insted of stubberd with ranks you acualy can do better on your own, becouse now you can win combat by ALOT and that causes more wonds. insted of them still checking on full leadership like a normal unit charged by a carno would.

 

[archangelvk]

Great Write up. Gave me some motivation to field my Carnosaur that's for sure. Just a quick question. So if I want to field a Carnosaur I need to field at leats two ? One wouldnt work?

 

[Gor-rok]

This is really encouraging. I'm glad someone is running an unorthodox list and having success with it. I'll have to proxy another carnosaur and give it a try; it seems like most people that insist something will never work on the table top have never actually tried it themselves.

One note: You mentioned making the enemy flee away from the flanking carnosaur, as it would cause the most wounds in combat (which was how it worked in 7th edition). Breaking enemies now always flee from the unit with the most ranks of five or more models, so they'd have to run away from the saurus block in your example. It's on page 60 of BRB under "direction of Flight".

 

[ZaGreekie]

This is really encouraging. I'm glad someone is running an unorthodox list and having success with it. I'll have to proxy another carnosaur and give it a try; it seems like most people that insist something will never work on the table top have never actually tried it themselves.

One note: You mentioned making the enemy flee away from the flanking carnosaur, as it would cause the most wounds in combat (which was how it worked in 7th edition). Breaking enemies now always flee from the unit with the most ranks of five or more models, so they'd have to run away from the saurus block in your example. It's on page 60 of BRB under "direction of Flight".

Haha your right! in that case for the "Jackhammer to work properly you need to wipe out the unit, and then overrun into the next unit.

Great Write up. Gave me some motivation to field my Carnosaur that's for sure. Just a quick question. So if I want to field a Carnosaur I need to field at leats two ? One wouldnt work?

one would definitely work!

But just remember that they attract a lot of attention to you just need to work a bit harder to keep it alive, where as if you have 2 the enemy normally splits there fire and both survive.

but as long as you are carfull with it you can run a solo carno list just fine

 

[Moniker]

I played a 1500pt game last week with a Carnosaur and a lvl 1, nekkid. It was great fun! My Scar Vet got plunked off by a Gobbo Bolt Thrower, but the Dino himself still got to slam into the back of some Savage Orcs and it was great fun!

If you're taking just one, bring at least one or two Stegadons along with him for target saturation.

Also, with Scar-Vets able to take a Carnosaur, you now don't NEED to do it without the Slann. You can have both!

 

[ZaGreekie]

I played a 1500pt game last week with a Carnosaur and a lvl 1, nekkid. It was great fun! My Scar Vet got plunked off by a Gobbo Bolt Thrower, but the Dino himself still got to slam into the back of some Savage Orcs and it was great fun!

If you're taking just one, bring at least one or two Stegadons along with him for target saturation.

Also, with Scar-Vets able to take a Carnosaur, you now don't NEED to do it without the Slann. You can have both!

I agree with both of these comments, actually i should add the concept of target saturation into the tactica its a good point that i don't think i fully explained.

Great Write up. Gave me some motivation to field my Carnosaur that's for sure. Just a quick question. So if I want to field a Carnosaur I need to field at leats two ? One wouldnt work?

Moniker makes a good point you should keep in mind if running just 1 carno get some other big scary things out on the field to attract some fire as well.

 

[archangelvk]

Now comes the hard part..... finding 200+ points for the damn monster. lol.

 

[ZaGreekie]

Now comes the hard part..... finding 200+ points for the damn monster. lol.

Salamanders... feed them to the carnosour!

 

[Man0waR]

"ole tus huevos"

You've been lucky to not match against those monster nemesis armies. I think this type of list is like "No risk No glory" and will be awesome to play.

By the way , i like your conversions for the riders

 

[Lizardmatt]

"Sneaky trick for 2" free moment"
7) As a monster the carnosour can pivot for free as much as it wants, and now as it has a long base this means that if you deeply it facing sideways at the end of your deployment zone, on your turn pivot it on the spot to face forwards, and you just gained 2" of free moment because you have not "moved" you just pivoted which you can do as much as you want! also facing the wide side of your carno at the enemy is good as it makes it much easier for enemy cannons to overshoot you.

A few problems with this.
1)Pivoting does count as movement, unless you're a warmachine.
2) When you deploy sideways, you're center is 1" behind the forward mark. When you pivot around center, it swing your front 1" in front of the forward line. You've only gained an inch.
3) Since pivoting is movement, and marching is limited to no more than twice your movement, you gain nothing. Trying to gain an inch or two of movement from pivoting breaks the movement rule of not exceeding double your movement.

Deploying sideways isn't as important as target saturation and making use of cover.

-Matt

 

[ZaGreekie]

"Sneaky trick for 2" free moment"
7) As a monster the carnosour can pivot for free as much as it wants, and now as it has a long base this means that if you deeply it facing sideways at the end of your deployment zone, on your turn pivot it on the spot to face forwards, and you just gained 2" of free moment because you have not "moved" you just pivoted which you can do as much as you want! also facing the wide side of your carno at the enemy is good as it makes it much easier for enemy cannons to overshoot you.

A few problems with this.
1)Pivoting does count as movement, unless you're a warmachine.
2) When you deploy sideways, you're center is 1" behind the forward mark. When you pivot around center, it swing your front 1" in front of the forward line. You've only gained an inch.
3) Since pivoting is movement, and marching is limited to no more than twice your movement, you gain nothing. Trying to gain an inch or two of movement from pivoting breaks the movement rule of not exceeding double your movement.

Deploying sideways isn't as important as target saturation and making use of cover.

-Matt

Pivoting counts as movement yes but it does not remove any of the movement distance is what i meant. (I have updated the tactica to explain this better)

and a monster can march and pivot so you gain 1 free inch instead of 2 your right. and you have better defense against cannons.

but a monster does not move as a unit does and it can march and pivot, or pivot and march or march pivot march etc.

P27 1st paragraph of the BRB
"Lone models and movement"

"Single models can pivot on the spot as many times as it wishes over the course of its move. It can do so without penalty and so pivoting does not prevent models from marching, or even shooting later in the turn"

 

[ZaGreekie]

"ole tus huevos"

You've been lucky to not match against those monster nemesis armies. I think this type of list is like "No risk No glory" and will be awesome to play.

By the way , i like your conversions for the riders

Every match that i played in the turnoment i started out screaming "a la sangre y la gloria!" (the tournament was in Barcelona so everyone spoke Spanish xD )

but it is very true you cannot play a dual carno list without going for gold, if you hesitate you just get destoryed.

and i did acualy come across alot of cannons, 1 empire list with 1 cannon and 2 tanks (3 cannons total) and 1 ogre who has 2 cannons, but as with everything some times you just need a bit of good luck for the cannon to cause only 3 wounds instead of 6 etc and you survive until you get into combat.

 

[lbisson]

List looks like a ton of fun. I am going to try a version of it soon. I was adding up the points though and it looks like the heroes add up to 637 with the builds you have listed. I think I'll take two level 1's to make it a legal list.

cheers!
Len

 

[Qupakoco]

Good write up! I like the idea of using the jackhammer approach. Should work well for breaking through enemy flanking units.

Glad to see someone giving the new Carno some love

 

[ZaGreekie]

List looks like a ton of fun. I am going to try a version of it soon. I was adding up the points though and it looks like the heroes add up to 637 with the builds you have listed. I think I'll take two level 1's to make it a legal list.

cheers!
Len

With that list I had to remove blood roar from one of the carnos but wanted to include it in the example as it is great, so it's up to the user to see what he removes be it a lvl from one of the mages or blood roar or what ever combo of stuff.

 

[lbisson]

Duh, I saw your writeup saying you wanted to include it and I did include it. Sorry about that. I'll let you know how I get along with it.