AoS carnasaur shinanigans

[is4evrdead]

Just curious on peoples thoughts on carnasaurs in general especially their possible anti-monster role they have

 

[Gazbal]

Hi is4evrdead,

Personally I like the Carnisaur for a couple of reasons.

1. The obvious anti monster role due to the "Pinned Down" rule.
2. A support unit which increases the effects of battleshock from the "Bloodroar" rule.

On top of that the damage output is not too shabby compared to other monster options.

This means that enemies can't really afford to ignore it as even once injured it can cause unwanted losses in the battleshock phase.

Of the two options I like Kroq-Gar the best because of his greater damage and ranged gauntlet attack.
Even with a 1 point loss on his to hit roll for massive jaws, the guaranteed damage (ie 3 vrs d3) is reliability that I can't ignore.

Additionally as monsters can now be killed by pretty much anyone, the Carnisaur seems to be a nasty anti monster weapon
and can draw fire away from other units.
Chameleon skinks and Ripperdactyls along with Salamanders and Bastilidons are all strong anti monster options which can target war machines or summoners whilst your enemy focuses on the Carnisaur.

I also think the model is pretty good. Less T-Rex than I would have liked, but still cool.

 

[is4evrdead]

Then he gets frenzy and xan hop from battle to battle feeding on some squishys all the while

always end up imagining it running back and fourth on battle field singing the trollolol dong

 

[Bainbow]

Bloodroar is brutal against Ogres or units like Morghasts. And remember, your opponent doesn't need to be able to fail Battleshock in order to take hits from Bloodroar, they just need Battleshock activated. Kill one Morghast, it's Bravery 10 unit can't possibly fail Battleshock because they can only roll a 7 at most. But they still take the test, and you still get the chance to Bloodroar them.

 

[JackwolfskinK]

I've only sued against lizards once, with my combined ogres/chaos bits.
The guy I played was running the regular carnosaur, and I had a stone horn. While I believe the carnosaur a damage output is rightly ferocious, he appeared to be horribly fragile.
I often run monsters, and even my twin Giants can dish out more punch (even once wounded) than the carnosaur.
And back to the stone horn, I got the charge and took the carnosaur down with all the stonehorns and riders attacks in one round of combat.

So my two cents would be he's nice, but be careful where you put him when there are other beasties about.

 

[Bainbow]

I've only sued against lizards once, with my combined ogres/chaos bits.
The guy I played was running the regular carnosaur, and I had a stone horn. While I believe the carnosaur a damage output is rightly ferocious, he appeared to be horribly fragile.
I often run monsters, and even my twin Giants can dish out more punch (even once wounded) than the carnosaur.
And back to the stone horn, I got the charge and took the carnosaur down with all the stonehorns and riders attacks in one round of combat.

So my two cents would be he's nice, but be careful where you put him when there are other beasties about.

He's inherently fragile, but a Mystic Shield/Celestial Rites combo on him turns him into one of the better tanks in the game. Only once has mine ever failed to kill its target monster, Stonehorns included.

 

[JackwolfskinK]

He's inherently fragile, but a Mystic Shield/Celestial Rites combo on him turns him into one of the better tanks in the game. Only once has mine ever failed to kill its target monster, Stonehorns included.

Admittedly at the time when the game took place, both myself and my opponent were very much still learning the mechanics of the game.
I don't recall him using any magic, and I was going for the good old fashioned "hit it in the face really hard until it dies" method haha

I nkw know better myself. I'm keen to try out the carnosaur at some point though til he the troglodon I take first for fluff reasons.

 

[Bainbow]

Admittedly at the time when the game took place, both myself and my opponent were very much still learning the mechanics of the game.
I don't recall him using any magic, and I was going for the good old fashioned "hit it in the face really hard until it dies" method haha

I nkw know better myself. I'm keen to try out the carnosaur at some point though til he the troglodon I take first for fluff reasons.

Carnosaur tips 101.
-If it's going to take damage, Shield it.
-Get rerolls in some way via Kroak, Starseer, Sunblood, or Astriloth Bearer to ensure you hit with both your claw attacks to pin your target to make your bites easier. This is vital!
-Unless the Carnosaur is your general for the Command Ability, never take the Scar-Veteran option. The Scar-Vet has a better command ability, but the Oldblood's bites are damage 3 rather than D3, making your hits so much more powerful. And if the Scar-Vet is your general, don't use him to hunt monsters.
-The Starpriest's Serpent Staff doubles the damage of the bites from 3 to 6 when you roll a 6 To Wound, this is very effective when it works.
-Attack with your Oldblood Carnosaur first if it's fighting a monster, no matter what unless you have no choice. You want that Carnosaur strong enough to kill the monster in one move, so avoid the damage table as much as you can.
-Don't forget its shooting attack, it can soften your prey up before you go for the pin. Even one wound can make all the difference in the world.

 

[lastlostboy]

-Unless the Carnosaur is your general for the Command Ability, never take the Scar-Veteran option. The Scar-Vet has a better command ability, but the Oldblood's bites are damage 3 rather than D3, making your hits so much more powerful.

But the Oldblood only hits on 4+ with its jaws.
With the special ability of its Forelimbs the Scar-Veteran gets auto-hits with its jaws.

I take the Scar-Veteran over the Oldblood any day.

 

[Bainbow]

But the Oldblood only hits on 4+ with its jaws.
With the special ability of its Forelimbs the Scar-Veteran gets auto-hits with its jaws.

I take the Scar-Veteran over the Oldblood any day.

Yes, but you're taking a -1 To Hit for a garunteed Damage 3, while the Scar-Vet may need to wound with three bites to even match that if you have even slight bad luck on the dice. You only have a 1/3 chance of hitting for that damage with the Scar-Vet, but the only trade off for the Oldblood is that you have a 1/6 chance to miss your bite, which can be totally mitigated by making use of a Sunblood or other rerollers as I specified to do, making the Oldblood the far more reliable choice.

 

[lastlostboy]

Na, the damage isn't guaranteed, it can be saved. And then more low-risk low-dmg attacks are better than high-risk high-dmg.
Especially with the roar-thing. Okay, it only works on units but the point still stands.

 

[Bainbow]

Na, the damage isn't guaranteed, it can be saved. And then more low-risk low-dmg attacks are better than high-risk high-dmg.
Especially with the roar-thing. Okay, it only works on units but the point still stands.

The Scar-Vet is definitely better against units, but as a monster-hunter you want the Oldblood because it isn't "high risk high damage," it's "minute risk high damage." Making use of rerolls, you have a 1/36 chance of missing an attack. That's not high risk, it's not even a risk. And hell, slap a Curse of Fates onto it too and even if you do miss one, you can up it to a hit with the Curse. And if you want the Carnosaur to fight units, there are far better options. The Stegadon, for example, is much better at clearing units with things like its handy-dandy Sunfire Throwers. The only reason to take a Carnosaur that's not your general is to look awesome (which is perfectly valid) or to hunt monsters, and the Scar Veteran doesn't have the damage to hunt monsters.

 

[lastlostboy]

"Making use of rerolls" the outputs are exactly the same...
It's AoS, I can buff every unit to auto-hit, auto-wound, 1+ save.

To compare both units I take of course unbuffed units. At least unbuffed from external sources.

 

[Bainbow]

"Making use of rerolls" the outputs are exactly the same...
It's AoS, I can buff every unit to auto-hit, auto-wound, 1+ save.

To compare both units I take of course unbuffed units. At least unbuffed from external sources.

Alright, put a Saurus Warrior unit up to auto hits and wounds with that 1+ save. Show me how you do this. Because I think you're a liar.

 

[lastlostboy]

1. Take a few Starbeast Constellations.
2. Reroll until success.
3. Done.

So if you say: I take the Oldblood because with the Starpriest I can double the jaw dmg and 6 so much more dmg than the Scar-Veteran.
I'd say: Well okay, I take 3 Starpriests that is 8 to 216 dmg.

It's like Fateweaver + Doom Bell.
It's AoS, you can't "max out" this game.
You can only play it and have fun.

But it is absolutly no art to abuse it...
Synergies are cool but in AoS you should evaluate units without it because there is no rule that they aren't cumulative with themself.

 

[Bainbow]

1. Take a few Starbeast Constellations.
2. Reroll until success.
3. Done.

So if you say: I take the Oldblood because with the Starpriest I can double the jaw dmg and 6 so much more dmg than the Scar-Veteran.
I'd say: Well okay, I take 3 Starpriests that is 8 to 216 dmg.

It's like Fateweaver + Doom Bell.
It's AoS, you can't "max out" this game.
You can only play it and have fun.

But it is absolutly no art to abuse it...
Synergies are cool but in AoS you should evaluate units without it because there is no rule that they aren't cumulative with themself.

Will admit, I've not seen the rules for the Starbeast Constellation so you'll have to say what it does.

That said, abilities like the starpriest do not stack according to the GW officials I've asked, and they have sufficient authority that I will take their word as law in this matter. So I refuse to accept you can do that absurd damage.

 

[lastlostboy]

1m13s

Will admit, I've not seen the rules for the Starbeast Constellation so you'll have to say what it does.

That said, abilities like the starpriest do not stack according to the GW officials I've asked, and they have sufficient authority that I will take their word as law in this matter. So I refuse to accept you can do that absurd damage.

That's totally okay. I guess it's in their interest that the game appear to be playable.
But as long there isn't an errata or new version of the rules I don't care what a red shirt or online shop support says.
It is on me to not abuse the rules and I won't do it but in the end the game has far greater problems than selfstacking rules.

 

[Bainbow]

That's totally okay. I guess it's in there interest that the game appear to be playable.
But as long there isn't an errata or new version of the rules I don't care what a red shirt or online shop support says.
It is on me to not abuse the rules and I won't do it but in the end the game has far greater problems than selfstacking rules.

It's a real shame to hear you say that.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

I believe you guys have gone slightly off topic.

I'm no Scalenex, but I will say that there really is no need of that discussion, as there is no real final answer, and a lot of people have already taken the discussion.

If you feel you must anyway, be polite and respect each others opinions.
I hate to say it, but remember it is just a game, and you are meant to have fun, the difference is how different kinds of people define how they have fun.

Different interpretations of rules is only normal, as we all see the world differently, therefore get to different conclusions, so no matter how much you disagree, they have just as much right to have their opinion as you have your own.

I'm not saying that you have crossed the line, I just wanted you to be aware, that it is not worth getting angry with each other about.

 

[Bainbow]

I believe you guys have gone slightly off topic.

I'm no Scalenex, but I will say that there really is no need of that discussion, as there is no real final answer, and a lot of people have already taken the discussion.

If you feel you must anyway, be polite and respect each others opinions.
I hate to say it, but remember it is just a game, and you are meant to have fun, the difference is how different kinds of people define how they have fun.

Different interpretations of rules is only normal, as we all see the world differently, therefore get to different conclusions, so no matter how much you disagree, they have just as much right to have their opinion as you have your own.

I'm not saying that you have crossed the line, I just wanted you to be aware, that it is not worth getting angry with each other about.

You're probably right.