7th Ed. BS 5 Stegadon

[Aparach]

Sorry for all stupid questions... Where is my 7th edit. book!!

 

[Craken]

LOL no worries bud, hopefully it will come soon

 

[skinkyone]

reading the book,
technically he can as it states any 2 crew can not use there weapons to fire the bolt thrower the problem is
if 2 crew are firing it ones bs5 the other is b3 do you use the highest?

 

[skinkyone]

another point,
we need to remember that this is the ONLY real ranged weapon in a LM army,
so taking that in account, its not really that overpowered.
and EVERY new army book has been overpowered so far why cant the LM one have a few nasty tricks in

 

[Khaldun]

Just got a reply from Jeff Armstrong from Games Workshop Canada Head Office. I was looking for an official ruling on this subject and he said:

"Yes, he is crew!" (his verbatim reply)

There we go - problem solved.

 

[natpat]

Ooo yes! Take that, Chaos knights!

 

[Ehecatl]

there is absolutely no rule in the book which specifically says he cant

There is no rule specifically stating a steam tank cannot fly.

Warhammer uses a permissive ruleset. It has to say you CAN, not you can't.

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Yes, but there's no way to argue that a steam tank SHOULD fly, it makes no sense. A skink chief looking down the barrel of the Giant bow and firing it, that seems plausible. You have to understand WHFB and WH40k are made by Europeans, not Americans, Mexicans, or other such unscrupulous and competitive types. Though they may look the same as us, their mindset is as alien to our own as the inscrutable Eldar.

 

[msinosic]

You have to understand WHFB and WH40k are made by Europeans, not Americans, Mexicans, or other such unscrupulous and competitive types. Though they may look the same as us, their mindset is as alien to our own as the inscrutable Eldar.

What!? You mean I cant sue someone for inappropriately touching my miniatures?

 

[fer]

what I want to know about the BS5 stegadon is why I can't roll more then 4 shots with the war chief running a blowpipe...and they always miss...

so if that could be answered, much appreciated

 

[Ehecatl]

Yes, but there's no way to argue that a steam tank SHOULD fly, it makes no sense. A skink chief looking down the barrel of the Giant bow and firing it, that seems plausible.

You seem to find a way to argue what suits you, so why not argue using your rules for the steam tank too?

You're still missing the point - a permissive ruleset states what can be done, not what can't be done. Taking it into the realm of should, could, might, sometimes is ignoring the rules and cheating. You can argue anything to justify someone doing something outside the rules, but it doesn't make a rule appear in the rulebook. There are far too many examples of rules not making sense - this isn't a realistic game. You have to accept that.

 

[hellbreaker]

this isn't a realistic game. You have to accept that.

hehe, dragons eating steam powered tanks... I agree with you.

But we are GW approved in using the skink chiefs Bs on ONE blowpipe or a giant bow.

He replaces one crew member, not that he only replaces him therefore he IS CREW.
rules says that one CREW MEMBER can fire the weapon(s), and therefore the chief can fire it.

look at the rules, read them, become friends, get kids and then eat them.

 

[msinosic]

look at the rules, read them, become friends, get kids and then eat them.

You just solved my problem of what to have for lunch!

On a not side note, I like your logic and reasoning of him being a crew memeber and crew members being allowed to use the weapon. I will check up the actual wording myelf shortly. well done!

 

[Caneghem]

look at the rules, read them, become friends, get kids and then eat them.

You just solved my problem of what to have for lunch!

On a not side note, I like your logic and reasoning of him being a crew memeber and crew members being allowed to use the weapon. I will check up the actual wording myelf shortly. well done!

The problem is the skink chief isn't union, so he's not allowed to touch the weapons even though he could do a better job. He replaces two of the crew, and the rest of the crew don't like working with a scab, so the last thing they would do is let him touch the equipment.

 

[Dalkarius]

He only replaces one of the crew, not two, so really he kinda is the 5th crewmember, and seeing as both those weapons are used by regular skinks, I would see no reasoning as to why they wouldn't want the far more aggresive and experienced member to fire.

 

[strewart]

Hmm so really, not only is the stegadon an upgrade to the skink chief, but the skink chief is an upgrade to the stegadon. Upgrade one of the crew to a chief, get better BS.

There really is no other example in warhammer to use as a reference. The closest thing is warmachines, and these things definitely aren't warmachines. I think the argument that he replaces one of the crew thus can act as a crew member is a sound one, but really all you can do is discuss it with your opponent before battle until GW come out with an FAQ. And emails from staff do NOT count, even if they are the mail order trolls answering questions. Only an official FAQ can be accepted as word from GW. So since we have all thoroughly read the books now, and formed opinions, there isn't really too much point continuing the arguement.

 

[Nosreme]

Similarly, actual bolt throwers when used by dwarves can use the unit champions BS even though it takes more then one person to fire them. Granted, those are war machines, but that only really matters for giving statistics to the weapon and preventing stand and shoots.

Yes, but WHY can they do that? Because the book says they can! The LM book says the guns are fired by two skinks. It never states a character may fire the guns. The character replaces a crew member, but he is not part of the crew (read what happens when the steggy dies for a reference), and there is no logic to suggest he can fire the guns himself, sorry.

Sure he can fire one of the blowpipes there is absolutely no rule in the book which specifically says he cant.

There is nothing in the rule book that says he can't fly either. Use some common sense. The rules specificially say that the howdah weapons are fired by skink crew.

Yes, you read wrong. The skinks die automatically (like chariot crew) when the steg falls, but while none of them can jump free, the character can and he continues to fight.

This is reason alone to believe he is NOT part of the crew. He simply displaces a crew member.

Just got a reply from Jeff Armstrong from Games Workshop Canada Head Office. I was looking for an official ruling on this subject and he said:

"Yes, he is crew!" (his verbatim reply)

There we go - problem solved.

Not really. They had the same phone call about Assassins shooting ST7 shuriken and they said "absolutely not!" But when the FAQ came out, guess what? ST7 shuriken! I'd wait for the FAQ before celebrating if I were you.

 

[Nosreme]

Holy cloning batman! I'm not sure exactly why it posted that in segments, but they can be removed... like wow.

 

[Scarloc]

If i remember correctly the army book only states it takes two skinks to fire the bow and one for each blowpipe.

Using the Engineer or Dwarf champion reference does not work as the Steggie is not a war machine. It has to state it in their book as there are specific BRB rules against characters BS and war machines.

Obviously it cannot fly, flying creatures get their own rule for flying.

Of course anything we get is not fully valid before we get an official FAQ. Listening to head office is really the only thing we can currently do. Ask your opponents or the tournies before you do it to get a ruling.

 

[Nosreme]

If i remember correctly the army book only states it takes two skinks to fire the bow and one for each blowpipe.

2 skink crew, if I recall. Hence, the debate

Using the Engineer or Dwarf champion reference does not work as the Steggie is not a war machine. It has to state it in their book as there are specific BRB rules against characters BS and war machines.

Obviously it cannot fly, flying creatures get their own rule for flying.

Both were used to illustrate that a rule has to be present for an effect to happen or chaos would erupt (and not the good kind from the frozen wastelands!). RAW wins over RAI or wishes or assumptions.

Of course anything we get is not fully valid before we get an official FAQ. Listening to head office is really the only thing we can currently do. Ask your opponents or the tournies before you do it to get a ruling.[/quote]

Very good idea. If your opponents know ahead of time, there will be less arguing about later.