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8th Ed. blowpipe vs. javelins

Well... I guess the true answer is: it depends! If you can avoid hitting on 7 (with doubleshot) blowpipes are a little bit better (fishing for 6s). But normally you will face lots of situations where you need 7s. Javelins give you a little bit more flexibility and are the better choice in case you don´t use the doubleshot of blowpipes.

Personally I go for javelins right now.

One more thing is: blowpipes have strenght 3 in their own profile. Javelins have the strenght of the model. So javelins scale better with strength buffs.
 
javelins also comes with "Quick to Fire" and a shield.
To me blowpipes became a "chameleons only" option as soon as javelins became free.
 
I would agree with that. In a unit of skirmishers, it is well worth it to have the parry save for that small chance that they could withstand a charge for one turn. Just for the extra speed bump effect.
 
And the javelin/ shield combo gives them a 5+ armor save. Not something to be overlooked.
 
The other benefit of building your skinks with javelins is they can double as cohorts
 
I guess I'm just in the minority, call me rob Ford cause I can't put the pipes down! The extra armor is nice but in reality isn't going to do much, and poison is where it's at so hitting on less than 6 isn't that big of a deal for me. I'd rather have the flexibility of blowpipes, if you are using them on the flanks it easy to get out of charge range and unload volumes of fire and if you are trying to redirect you can got your 20 shots off (same as jabs only all in a single turn) and can still flee if it's advantageous. With jabs you have to stand and shoot to get the same volume. Ultimately I think it comes down to play style and blowpipes favor mine more.
 
Lizardmen_Jeff said:
I guess I'm just in the minority, call me rob Ford cause I can't put the pipes down! The extra armor is nice but in reality isn't going to do much, and poison is where it's at so hitting on less than 6 isn't that big of a deal for me. I'd rather have the flexibility of blowpipes, if you are using them on the flanks it easy to get out of charge range and unload volumes of fire and if you are trying to redirect you can got your 20 shots off (same as jabs only all in a single turn) and can still flee if it's advantageous. With jabs you have to stand and shoot to get the same volume. Ultimately I think it comes down to play style and blowpipes favor mine more.
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Yeah but with the rate of hitting a 7+ to hit, poison gets nullified. In the BRB it states if you need a 7+ to hit, poison cannot proc.
 
Oh I know, I'd never double tap if it meant losing poison. If you March but are able to get within 6 in you can double tap on 6s, so you can either get on a flank or get in their grill for redirect and still get all your shooting in. Again I think it comes down to what you're used to and how you play, but I don't see myself giving up double tap for mediocre armor and a 6++. Skinks are going to die regardless and I'd rather mine be more offensive in their shooting than defensive in a combat they aare more than likely going to lose. I just plan on them getting run over and try to set up accordingly
 
I think Jeff's point is that you can still take 20 S3 shots (ignoring the poison) if you need to.

I know I'm new to Lizardmen, but I have faced them quite a bit. I see uses for both, not only depending on your army list and play style, but also your opponent. For example, some opponents are easy enough to wound without needing the poison.

This feels like another one of those "sword&shield vs spears" type of questions. Everyone is going to give you a slightly different answer depending on their own army. Likely this means that each are equally viable.

~gwh
 
These are the different shooting scenarios for Skinks and which equipment I think works best:

1. Move + Long Range: Javs (10 shots @ 5+)
2. Move + Short Range: Dealers choice (javs get more hits, blowpipes get more poison 6's)
3. No move, short range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 5+)
4. No move, long range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 6+)
5. Charged + Long Range: Javs (10 shots @ 6+)
6. Charged + Short Range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 6+)
7. Charged + Really Short Range: Javs (10 quick to fire shots @ 5+)

I tend to get my skinks within "really short range" and take advantage of the quick to fire (and occasionally some lucky parries) to slow my opponent down. I've also found the 5+ save to make my skinks a lot more survivable, especially against BS shooting.

If you don't usually get your skinks into combat or find yourself in really short range very often, then you'll get just as good shooting from the blowpipes and occasionally better shooting.
 
For instance, in my last game vs warriors I was able to take out his flank chaff w chameleons on the left flank and drop rocks on the right so was able to maneuver my Skinks on his left and right flanks of his combat blocks. From turns 2 through 4 I was able to double tap w both units before they had to redirect. That's 120 shots between the units as opposed to 60 w javs. I was lucky as he had two big units of ogres that were prime targets and he didn't take enough chaff to get rid of my Skinks
He ended up using his daemon prince to clear them out but I was a-ok w that! Of course this doesn't always happen but if you can get your pipes in close you can really lay a hurting down
 
hdctambien said:
These are the different shooting scenarios for Skinks and which equipment I think works best:

1. Move + Long Range: Javs (10 shots @ 5+)
2. Move + Short Range: Dealers choice (javs get more hits, blowpipes get more poison 6's)
3. No move, short range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 5+)
4. No move, long range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 6+)
5. Charged + Long Range: Javs (10 shots @ 6+)
6. Charged + Short Range: Blowpipes (20 shots @ 6+)
7. Charged + Really Short Range: Javs (10 quick to fire shots @ 5+)

I tend to get my skinks within "really short range" and take advantage of the quick to fire (and occasionally some lucky parries) to slow my opponent down. I've also found the 5+ save to make my skinks a lot more survivable, especially against BS shooting.

If you don't usually get your skinks into combat or find yourself in really short range very often, then you'll get just as good shooting from the blowpipes and occasionally better shooting.
Click to expand...

If someone is using bs shooting on my Skinks I'm OK w that, the only time I really see the 5+ doing any good is vs str3 or lower and no armor piercing. Anything str4 is gonna go right through that 5+, at least in my experience. And at str3 I don't really rate non poison shots so pipes work best for me. I'm loving the javs as cohorts though and think ultimately that's where they belong, but again, just one man's experiences and opinions. Whatever works for a particular player is what's best for that player! :D
 
I concur with Lizardmen_Jeff on all accounts. I see a lot of advantage to using blowpipes on my skink skirmisher units because march-and-shoot can often get me in short range to fully take advantage of blowpipes (especially mid-to-late game). Javelins are great too, but in different ways, and really shine for me on the cohort units. Each general's playstyle can get the most use out of their equipment choices. You really can't go wrong either way, but should always play the unit appropriately depending on how they are equipped.
 
Noone seems to be considering that jav skinks have far better armor too. Remember that the 5+ save will still give you a save vs str 4 and the 6+ won't, also PARRY SAVES! I agree that with the java being free now there is no contest, whereas last book I'd have said blowpipes all the way
 
I really favored blowpipes until i realised thst it is no longer 1+ to hit large targets. Now i am not sure what to think, but lately i use a jav skirmish unit for my wizard to be in and cham-skinks for hunting monsters and warmachins. Still, if one can get blowpipes in to short range it can really be cost effective.
 
I have tried javelins twice and blowpipes twice (both bp in one game).

When I stood and shot when they got charged is when I was wrecking face with them. They are so cheap with bp that I can field like 5 or 6 units of them to give my opponent fits. I am leaning more towards bp at this point. (I got a ton of javelin and blowpipes so need to use both)
 
cryocube said:
I have tried javelins twice and blowpipes twice (both bp in one game).

When I stood and shot when they got charged is when I was wrecking face with them. They are so cheap with bp that I can field like 5 or 6 units of them to give my opponent fits. I am leaning more towards bp at this point. (I got a ton of javelin and blowpipes so need to use both)
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im putting together my first units of skinks i already have 10 with blowpipes and i was wondering if i should make the others 20 with blowpipes or javelin?
 
Sunchax said:
lately i use a jav skirmish unit for my wizard to be in.
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sorry to blow your bubble, but as soon as your wizard joins the skirmisher they lose "skirmish" since your wizard dont have it, which means you should put him with a cohort instead.
 
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