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8th Ed. Beasts or heavens

T
Jungle Swarm

tardis82

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I have a list with slann on high couple of blocks of temple guard and sarus warriors and I have a lot of skinks.

In this list I have a level 2 skink priest and I'm trying to work out what lore to put on him what do you guys think?
 
Tends to depend on your opponent, but generally I run Skink Priests on Beasts, especially if your putting them close to your Saurus to control their primeval fury thing.

Heavens is versatile, but Beasts is so good at turning your Saurus into a hammer and pushing your TG up a needed power level, it's hard to argue with.
 
thanks i know what you mean the heavens is a great buff and de-buff lore but beasts does so much for the saurus element to my army
 
Beasts for a combat heavy army on foot, heavens for a skink cloud or monster mash. Iceshard is better than Wyssans in my opinion, even in my Ogre army I use heavens far more often than beasts
 
I would have to agree as well that it's very opponent-dependent. I play against Tomb Kings (with zero Carrion) more than anything... so Heavens can be a waste for my Priests, but Beasts almost always has value regardless of who I'm up against.
 
What about casting values?

With Wyssans, I guess a min of 3 dice is needed for a skink, and that is potentially a big % of the power pool (even if at 12, its still 25%), reducing the slanns effectiveness by reducing the chances of him successfully casting the more powerful spells of any lore.

Don't get me wrong, beasts is great and I have used it, but in my (very limited experience across the two) my preference is for heavens as you get the cheap buff/hex leaving the slann free to use more dice - It also has the benefit of keeping your oppo unsure as to what to dispel. Does he try to dispel Iceshard, or keep more dice to go against a more powerful/useful spell from the slann.
 
I'm going to try it out tomorrow with beasts and let you guys know how it goes
 
Gary_M said:
What about casting values?

With Wyssans, I guess a min of 3 dice is needed for a skink, and that is potentially a big % of the power pool (even if at 12, its still 25%), reducing the slanns effectiveness by reducing the chances of him successfully casting the more powerful spells of any lore.

Don't get me wrong, beasts is great and I have used it, but in my (very limited experience across the two) my preference is for heavens as you get the cheap buff/hex leaving the slann free to use more dice - It also has the benefit of keeping your oppo unsure as to what to dispel. Does he try to dispel Iceshard, or keep more dice to go against a more powerful/useful spell from the slann.
Click to expand...


Throwing 3 dice means you'll fail that cast 50 percent of the time. You'll be realistically throwing 4 min, 5 if you really want it to go off.
 
I generally run heavens; the fact that we usually hit second is enough for me to like the -1 modifier on the to hit rolls. It also disables a war machine on a 50/50 which is invaluable when your monsters can get one-shotted by cannons.
 
Heavens all the way!
 
Putzfrau said:
Gary_M said:
What about casting values?

With Wyssans, I guess a min of 3 dice is needed for a skink, and that is potentially a big % of the power pool (even if at 12, its still 25%), reducing the slanns effectiveness by reducing the chances of him successfully casting the more powerful spells of any lore.

Don't get me wrong, beasts is great and I have used it, but in my (very limited experience across the two) my preference is for heavens as you get the cheap buff/hex leaving the slann free to use more dice - It also has the benefit of keeping your oppo unsure as to what to dispel. Does he try to dispel Iceshard, or keep more dice to go against a more powerful/useful spell from the slann.
Click to expand...


Throwing 3 dice means you'll fail that cast 50 percent of the time. You'll be realistically throwing 4 min, 5 if you really want it to go off.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked the probability link but not so sure.

The OP said a level 2 priest, so only 8 needed. On average of 7 on two dice, 3 should do it more often than not I would have thought.

All depends on available power dice, other spells available and situation I guess.
 
casting wyssans with a lvl 2 priest and 3 dice is

83.8% chance of succes.

with a lvl 1 and 3 dice it is

74.1% chance of succesi
 
Yea, if it's a 10+ (I don't rember either) ;)
 
I think it's an 11 unless you cast it on a beast; then it is reduced by 1. I don't think saurus on foot count as beasts either. Kind of a bummer considering Beastmen are always beasts, but we can only get the bonus on mounted units, krox or monsters for the -1 to cast. In theory you could cast a wyssans on 7 with a lvl 2 and an EOTG on a steggie.
 
teufelhund said:
I think it's an 11 unless you cast it on a beast; then it is reduced by 1. I don't think saurus on foot count as beasts either. Kind of a bummer considering Beastmen are always beasts, but we can only get the bonus on mounted units, krox or monsters for the -1 to cast. In theory you could cast a wyssans on 7 with a lvl 2 and an EOTG on a steggie.
Click to expand...


its a written 10+ ;)
 
SW with Scarvet in cold one inside the unti should benefit from the lore rule

Since in the unit there's a cavalry model.

So difficult is 9.

In Saurus unit terms Wyssans & Blizzard are the same in terms of survavility (unless you are fighting a S7) both should modify by a 16,6% the chances of being hit or wounded. Also Wyssans grants you another 16,7% extra chance of wounding and also to pass through Armour Save.

Iceshard Blizzard also gives -1 to LD and the mentioned protection against shooting.

So if you are looking in combat phase: Wyssans boost by 50% the unit performance (16,7*3, to avoid being wounded, to wound, through armour save) while Iceshard only a 16,7% (to avoid being hit).

But Iceshard shines in more phases , can be easily cast multiple times by different casters, have a better combo with other spells. Iceshard + Doom and Darknes is great (-4 LD) . Iceshard + Carnosaur bloodroar. Iceshard + Salamander fire (panic test). And so on.

So it seems that heavens signature is more usefull than beast.
 
Great summary on the last post. Some additional info: against elves, you want wyssans, since their chances to hit are naturally high, while chances to wound are generally lower. Flock of doom works against their t3 as well. Also ld 9 elves care less about - 1ld than others.
What I'd consider is this: what do you want to achieve? A high/WD-slann will easily have access to the same buff/debuff with his high casting bonus. But froggie will be more comfortable with Wyssans, due to his proximity to combat blocks in need of the buff, while seldom in range to silence war machines early. That's a question of roles on the field.
A beast lvl 2 will have 2 fairly power-hungry spells that you want around your combat blocks. Meanwhile a heavens lvl 2 will have a toolbox of spells to roll, all with 24" range. This means his bunker can be mobile/advanced forward, while still buffing your combat blocks. I find this ensures I use the priests differently. Heavens get skirmishers to redirect far forward, while a beast priest "hides" with a cohort, covering the combat units' flank against redirectors. Likewise i will say lvl 1 priests are better off with beasts. With low chance to get it off, you will often 4-dice a crucial Wyssans from a priest, while lvl 2's generally can use both heavens spells in a round. My 2 cents at least
 
Why not take both ;-) Skink priests aren't exactly expensive points wise, and as long as you don't give them any magical items and don't bother upgrading them to level 2 you can easily fit both in, giving one beasts and one heavens (each with signiture spells if you want to be predictable). That way you have the option...

But anyway, I say heavens all the way... The signiture spell is brilliant, especially against pesky shooty armies like dwarves ;-)

ETA - Also, having 2 priests means 2 extra chances to channel... Combine that with a slann with a channelling staff and harmonic convergence and let the good times roll! :-D
 
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