8th Ed. Battle Report, Tactics, and Advice needed

[bhuddiver]

I need some help, but first some back story:

I mostly play against an Empire player at 1000 point games, since we are both still pretty new at the game (and broke). These games have gotten to the point where basically 1 of 2 options happen: I always run chamo skinks to kill his Hellblaster Volley Gun and Engineer 1st turn, or he kills my skinks. So either Gun is dead (or not taken) or is alive and shooting. If it dies I tend to mop the floor with him. Between heroes/lords (I run between 500-600 points in) and my warriors/COC I barely break a sweat. But if the Gun is ripping away, I'm lucky to get my heroes/lords into combat, let alone any regular rank and file! Anyway, today we finally came to an impasse. I win most of our games (but barely), and he has recently started to complain that he has no way to kill my Saurs heroes withouth the Volley gun. He ran a list with 2 Volley guns and 2 Engineers, plus a small unit of Chicken Riders (and lvl 1 wizard,block o' spears, and two 5 man handgunners). He also got Pit of Shades. I got Chain Lightning and said "screw it" and kept it. Long story short, my chamo skinks killed 1 of his handgunners then fled back to my bubble 24'' away from guns. Where basically we spent the next 6 turns flinging magic at each other (which did almost nothing for both of us), and ended the game with me "winning" by about 40 points. It was truly a sad game.

Question 1: The Hellblaster Volley Gun with and Engineer is just devastating, how do we cope with it besides hoping the chamo skinks (or flyers I guess) get it first?

Question 2: Was it a dick move for me to do that against his crazy list?

Question 3: How can we settle the impasse between Hellblaster Volley Gun vs Saurs Characters?

--Our solution (In theory) is that he will not run any "good" artillery (only the wacky and horribly unreliable) or none at all, while I will limit myself to 25% Lords AND Heroes (Instead of 50% Lords & 50% Heroes).

Question 4: Do you think that'll work?

Sorry if I rambled, it is late here but I wanted to put all this down before I forget something.

 

[Skinquisitor]

Im not sure what is he taking against you, but he could negate your saurus heroes with a wizzard lord, have a van horstsmann speculum. If he has more points to spend, white cloak of ulric, a warhorse with barding, and lvl4 is optimal. Core: 9 inner circle knights with full command and gleaming banner. I guess he doesnt have a steamtank, but that would be nice to have, plus 3 demis. That would be around 1000 points, a little below. Youd have hard time poisoning 1+ armor save things, and the wizard can take on any saurus heroes. If you accept the challange, youll have 1 attack wich does hit at 6+, wounds on 4+ if you have gw, then comes the 5+ /5+ saves. And if he has lore of death, you gonna have a bad time.

 

[JamJar]

Hello, I play a lot against a friend or two having Empire armies, others are OnG or Undead.

So either Gun is dead (or not taken) or is alive and shooting. If it dies I tend to mop the floor with him.

That's how I tend to think, especially in small games since warmachines have the potential to do a lot of damage. My friends would always have the Hellblaster to shoot my Saurus and reduce them to half before combat.

Question 1: The Hellblaster Volley Gun with and Engineer is just devastating, how do we cope with it besides hoping the Chamo skinks (or flyers I guess) get it first?

I tend to have a Javelin-Skirmisher unit (or two) to run up to any warmachines and shoot them. Usually the skirmishers unit be sort of in between a Hellblaster and saurus unit (He'd place it right in front of my Saurus). For any units I wouldn't want shot by a Hellblaster I would place it 1" behind (so 25" in the standard deployment) in case he got 1st turn.

I find this works nicely most of the time

I don't really use Chamos or flyers, I find that chamos are a bit too expensive to waste on a Hellblaster if he gets 1st turn. Then again he does get another penalty for chamos. I'd happily use them against a cannon. It's all down to personal preference too, others have their methods. Check out some of the tacticas if you haven't already:
Tactica Index: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/8th-edition-lm-tactica-index-newest-link-march-2nd-2015.8681/
Lizardmen Handbook: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/the-8e-lizardmen-handbook-updated-november-2nd-2014.13130/

Question 2: Was it a d**k move for me to do that against his crazy list?

Nah, a fellow Force of Order attacking your Lizardmen who are trying a defend the world against all evil?! I say destroy that ghastly metal thing, have your General walk up to his General and discuss the more important matters that are at hand. So yeah, kill all his army ASAP, but leave one survivor to run home and tell the tale of the Lizardmen!

Question 3: How can we settle the impasse between Hellblaster Volley Gun vs Saurus Characters?

Your Saurus characters are protected in a unit, so you don't have to worry too much if the unit is almost gone. You could always try something crazy different against your opponent, like a couple of lone characters so his warmachines have to decide what to shoot, especially with the threat of the dreaded Quango Egg. A lone character could even be placed in a Skirmisher unit before jumping out onto an enemy unit. If you've got the Flying Carpet then try stay out of the 24" range of the Hellblaster if not long range and take on anything in the flank. Lone Saurus characters are pretty tough and scary!

--Our solution (In theory) is that he will not run any "good" artillery (only the wacky and horribly unreliable) or none at all, while I will limit myself to 25% Lords AND Heroes (Instead of 50% Lords & 50% Heroes).
Question 4: Do you think that'll work?

In 1000pts how many characters would you normally have? Lessening Lord & Hero pts used would work. In games around 1000 pts there aren't too many other things to worry about compared to massive games where he could have everything (but then you'd have more characters). I mean they can hold up pretty well against most things. Against warmachines I would have more jav-Skirmishers - there are so expendable.

 

[bhuddiver]

Skinquisitor I'll send your words to him, maybe he can use those tips while planning next.

JamJar: He owns the core book between us two, does placing skirmishers in front of, say, a block of Saurs make it so the Saurs get a cover bonus?

Here is my average list

OB, CO, Dawnstone + remaining points on other magic items (I always give him a +1 rerollable though)
SV, CO, BSB, Armor of Destiny
Skink Priest, Scroll, lvl 2

Block of Saurs
Skink Skirmishers

Chamo Skinks
COC, spears

I do mix it up though. Sometimes lvl 1 priest, no COC, Great Weapons. more Saurs, etc... But it basically revolves around the above. ~500 points on Heroes and Lords. I haven't technically lost a game yet (knock on wood) and every time all of my characters rock house.
ist
Since we're using the faq'ed corebook, I'm using the 50% Lords and 50% Heroes (I use battlescribe to make my lists). If I drop it down to 25% Lords and 25% Heros, my list still doesn't change really at all. But if I change to 25% Lords and Heroes combined, I'd basically be dropping the OB completely, and dropping Priest to lvl 1. Then adding an additional chamo skinks, skirmisher squad, and fill out the Saur block with more rank and file plus full command (since those are all the models I have left) to the above list. At least, that was one idea.

 

[Chicken Lips]

Empire is actually my first, largest and main army. They are also one of the most versatile armies. If he is getting frustrated, there are several things he can do.

First, if he wants to deal with your Camo Skinks, one option he could do is to deny a flank. This means that be deploys all the way over to one side of the board (or at least 12" away from it) so that you will not be able to approach him from that side. Then he could take a unit (usually about 10) of Archers and place his Wizard in that unit. They are considered skirmishers, so not only would his Wizard get the Look Out Sir protection, he'd also get the -1 to hit from being Skirmished. Set them between where your Camos would come out and his HBVG, and then if he gets the first turn, simply move them out of the way and target the Skinks, or leave them there and give the HBVG the cover from the unit. (Yes, if a unit is in the way it would get either soft cover or hard cover, depending on how much of the unit is obscured from true line of sight. Either way, he still has the shooting from the Archers and any magic missiles that his wizard might have. (The Ruby Bing of Ruin works really well on this guy.)

As for how he is to handle your fighty characters, as was mentioned earlier, Van Horstmann's Speculuum. That is a nasty trick that can really throw a wrench into game plans. If he does choose to take it though, make sure he takes the Talisman of Preservation for that 4++. That will be his only protection in combat. I prefer to take the all mounted list that was mentioned above because the barded warhorse will give him a 5+ armor save as well as great movement to get into optimal positions. A wizard on pegasus is another option he has, but I have found that I prefer him in a unit of 1+ armor knights so that he has great protection from the unit. The way I run him there is in a unit of 5 knights with another unit of 5 knights to move out in front of him and act as a screen. You gain great movement, protection from the unit he's in, cover from the unit in front of him and they can handle any chaff unit that may threaten him, and he can still give that little extra boost to his bodyguards in the form of magic. Their long charge range will keep most things that would be shooting at him at long range as well. That is hard to overcome.

If he has a very mobile force, then setting the HBVG down in the middle of these units will give it fairly good protection. He just needs to be sure that he has a reliable magic missile to throw at any unit that get out of his charge arcs. (Fireball is the best, but the lore of heavens is amazing on cavalry. I typically try to take Heavens with the Ruby Ring on my Wizard.) A Captain of the Empire with the VHS and Dragonhelm is quite nasty too. He gets better stats and can still have a 1+ armor save (2++ vs flaming attacks).

If he is intent on using infantry, then he seriously needs to consider fitting a Great Cannon in there somewhere. Maybe even dropping the Demis. That strategy needs to focus on ranged power. The infantry is there to be defensive and bog the enemy down. Halberdiers are the Empire's best infantry choice for their +1S. They can also take shields if he is worried about being shot at a lot. They don't get to use them in CC, but it can help them vs shooting.

Now, as for your army, a Skiink cloud is the way to go. Overwhelm him. Give him lots of targets. Have your big nasties marching up behind them so as to get their cover and approach his flanks with something else like Saurus Cav, or Ripperdactyls. He won't be able to ignore them, because getting charged in the flank or rear can be devastating for Empire armies. They rely on their units working together, so if you break up this synergy by separating units or causing him to divert a good portion of his force away from the main fight, then you greatly weaken him. The lone character (needs to be fast) idea that was mentioned above would work really well, but might be difficult in lower point games like this.

Hope that helps! Good luck!