8th Ed. Bad news: Everybody should read.

[Lawot]

sorry if I come of as out to get you, I really just had another view.
I totally get where you are coming from.

Not at all...you raise some excellent points, which I shall have to think over...

We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our model collection, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the forums, we shall fight on the gaming tables, we shall fight in the plastic forests and in the spaces between small buildings, we shall fight in the model hills both stepped and smooth; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this model collection or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire (not Karl Franz’s Empire) beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the L-O forumites, would carry on the struggle, until, in the Old Ones good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

The Old One Winston Churchill went on to say, “Above all, we shall not assume Games Workshop is going to discontinue our army until we have hard evidence.”


HUZZAH!!! HUZZAH!!! HUZZAH!!!

Scalenex...you, sir, win.

 

[borkbork]

I haven't read all the post so far, so I might be saying things that are allready said a thousand times

From what i have heard, i am quite worried to be honest. But i think (or perhaps, i hope is better) that this is all about some parallel "skirmish" game, which will not affect warhammer that much. I for sure aint gonna rebase my army...for my upainted lizards it wont be such a big deal, but for my 20k orcs it is huge. And if i cant play my orcs, it is more or less game over for me. My oldest orcs are now over 25 years old and they are my babies....well my quiet babies....the other two make way to much noise.

 

[Rikard]

Tl;dr: Stop jumping to conclusions based on RUMOURS or worse, REACTIONS and GUESSES based on those rumours. The rumours are of dubious validity in the first place, but the guesses based on those rumours are on par with wishlisting in terms of validity.

The trouble is much of what Harry (the only person I view as being anywhere near 100% credible) has said, leans towards what's been hinted at by others.

Add in to consideration that Dark Elves and High Elves have been around much longer than Lizardman as a GW product and individually generate more revenue. Now take along with that consideration what's just happened with the end times Khaine book.


3 Elf factions, half their characters (both with and without rules) and their fluff unceremoniously scrubbed out of existence and a generic "One size fits all" gloss applied over the top. I won't even go near any of the Elf forums after the Khaine book out of fear of my keyboard igniting for the latent flames of anger.

- Take into account again that the Lizardman have now basically decided to call GG on the warhammer world (fluff and art, both backing up the E.T. rumours), that as a minimum, Itza got devastated (not the same as destroyed) and many of the Slann in the city of mists have now been killed by the Skaven and yeah....one could easily be forgiven for being a tad pessimistic.




Rumours are rumours as you correctly stated and getting hot under the collar based on speculation is not healthy, but neither is assuming all will be fine and dandy when the smoke clears.

I don't know what will ultimately happen as I'm sure everyone on here has already accepted too, though a foreboding air is definitely present.


HOWEVER...
- It never hurts to be prepared, expecting the worst only to find out it's not as bad as we imagined is a better trade off IMHO than the opposite.
- Having a contingency set up, in case of the worst is not only a smart move worthy of an Old One, but I think it shows a wonderfully positive attitude of making the best of the worst possible situation, should it occur.
- On top of that I also think it shows a genuine love of the army and a stubborn refusal to ragequit, hawk everything on Ebay and write numerous all caps posts on how outraged you are, how evil/stupid GW is and how you'll never play anything GW related again (which is why warseer and BOLS exists).

I stopped using BOLS and warseer just shy of a year ago, both are so riddled with angst, rage and are virtual black holes of negativity that irresistibly sucks any positivity out of you and in my old age, I just don't have the time to spare for either site.


In fact, out of all the warhammer, or 40K based forums, this is the only one I use any more, because of the general positivity the users display and to be honest I'm proud of the members on this site for keeping their cool and discussing possibilities, alternatives and ideas in a calm and rational manner.

 

[Slanputin]

Xlanhuapec was always an interesting city, for its collection of Old One tech' and elemental guardians. I like to imagine there are some rules for employing said gaurdians in the battle.

Sure, we don't know the end result yet, but there's writing on the wall, and I'd rather have me nerves prepared!

 

[SilverFaith]

No rumours of any half-legit source have said anything about removal of any races.

The rumours have only said there will be 6 factions, which is obvious - if they make an entirely diifferent rule system, they can't make up entirely new rules for each and every faction just like that.

This falls squarely into "unpleaseable fanbase" territory, where GW could either let slip that the new rule system would contain all factions, but wouldn't be released until sometime in 2016, and or the current rumour, where there are only 6, and people would scream and moan about it in either case.

If anything, the only poor decision ANYONE has made in all this, is whoever was dumb enough to start leaking rumours without actually knowing anything substantial. Not surprising it was leaked on whineseer though, they seem to have a fondness for fearmongering. Right now, all we have are vague "something like this, maybe, perhaps, sorta?", and then people draw all sorts of insane conclusions from that.

People are obviously free to take note of these things, and plan potential purchases accordingly. But talking about dropping the army, homebrewing rules, etc. is a tad too early.

 

[Skinquisitor]

People are obviously free to take note of these things, and plan potential purchases accordingly. But talking about dropping the army, homebrewing rules, etc. is a tad too early.

I think we forget our ultimate weapon to 'fight' for our army. Dont forget, we can vote about the 9th edition, with our purchases. Gw wants our money, thats all their goal, they really dont care about the game. We can simply stop spending at Gw, mayhaps they will realize why is that happening. If the worst nightmares come to life with the 9th ed, im up to organise boycott against gw products. That would clearly send a messege, they wouldnt have an option but to restore previous game, we could force them to start communicating about the game with their customers. As it seems to me, they dont collect feedbacks, and ignore everything that comes from their customers, they just follow what comes out from their mind. I read somewhere, gw doesnt make any marketing researches, thats true. They think, they can do whatever the hell they come up with. Maybe its time to show them, they need to start listening to their customers, otherwisee theyll turn away from them. Also, I read that Gw has a new ceo from 2015. I really hope he/she will change their perspective. If not... well, Im serious about the boycott. If their income is cut to its 10%, maybe theyll open their eyes and ears. We have the power to do it, while we keep/spend our money on something else, still we can continue playing in our clubs with the current edition, and wait for the change. Thats the only thing, that really hurts them. A final thought, let me evoke Joker with a little twist: Its about the money, AND its about sending a messege.

 

[Rikard]

Gw wants our money, thats all their goal, they really dont care about the game. We can simply stop spending at Gw, mayhaps they will realize why is that happening. If the worst nightmares come to life with the 9th ed, im up to organise boycott against gw products.

No, I think this is an incredibly bad idea.

Even if GW released a statement saying that Lizardmen are now going to be completely scraped and with no support or carry over into 9th edition they will already be cutting their income. No doubt they've already experience this with the elf players. Some players on here (myself included) only collect Lizardmen as a fantasy army, if they get binned then it means that GW no longer get an income from these players, why buy a new set of rules for a faction that is no longer supported, in a gaming system you no longer play?

I collect Tyranids and Necrons for 40K, so will most likely add to my army as I feel and see fit, that includes things like the recent Baal campaign.

Saying "screw you" and not purchase anything at all, will not achieve anything, as I'd be missing out on my 40k armies (especially with necrons so close to a re-release) by trying to shoot GW in the foot, only to realise I've actually missed and shot myself in the foot instead.



As I said earlier, I like this site and the overall positive attitude of its members, I don't want to see that tarnished with threads/attempts of rallying people to boycott, that sort of behaviour belongs on warseer and BOLS. If you're still adamant about it, then please do it or another forum, not here.

 

[Skinquisitor]

Gw wants our money, thats all their goal, they really dont care about the game. We can simply stop spending at Gw, mayhaps they will realize why is that happening. If the worst nightmares come to life with the 9th ed, im up to organise boycott against gw products.

No, I think this is an incredibly bad idea.

Even if GW released a statement saying that Lizardmen are now going to be completely scraped and with no support or carry over into 9th edition they will already be cutting their income. No doubt they've already experience this with the elf players. Some players on here (myself included) only collect Lizardmen as a fantasy army, if they get binned then it means that GW no longer get an income from these players, why buy a new set of rules for a faction that is no longer supported, in a gaming system you no longer play?

I collect Tyranids and Necrons for 40K, so will most likely add to my army as I feel and see fit, that includes things like the recent Baal campaign.

Saying "screw you" and not purchase anything at all, will not achieve anything, as I'd be missing out on my 40k armies (especially with necrons so close to a re-release) by trying to shoot GW in the foot, only to realise I've actually missed and shot myself in the foot instead.



As I said earlier, I like this site and the overall positive attitude of its members, I don't want to see that tarnished with threads/attempts of rallying people to boycott, that sort of behaviour belongs on warseer and BOLS. If you're still adamant about it, then please do it or another forum, not here.

Well, dude, yeah. You can put your head in the sand, and let the things go as they did before. This will lead only to Gw thinking that they can do anything. But no, this has to stop at a point. They have to reallize there are a lots of other wargames, wich compete for our money. Im sure you think now, I should f***k myself, and go play another wargame. No, there was a reason why I chose whfb, and lizards. I agree, that the game needs to change, but changing like this is just a blind alley.
Also, I have the right to share my opinion, and you have the right to disagree with it, but sending me to other forums... Dude, where do you live? In a dictatorship, yeah, there can only be one opinion, but this site is not one. Everyone is allowed and should share his/her opinion, so the community can choose always the best solution. Im offering one. You disagree with it. I accept your opinion, you gave your cause, as I did with my opinion. This doesnt mean you or I am right. I offered a tool, wich can bring lizards and other races back in the case if we are eredicated. If a bakery cant sell a type of bread, it will change the receipt or stops producing it. By forcing Gw to change and listen to their customers, I want to improve our game and our attitude related to Gw. Wouldnt it feel better, if we were asked about the game, before forcing such changes on us, wich may result destroying our entire hobby? Id be very happy, if they listened to us, if there were questionnaires so we could provide them feedbacks. If you think this over, is it negative attituted? I want to build, and improve. I dont think its negative. Think a bit before stating anything. As a lone customer, I dont have a tool to change things, but the community can achieve this. I do belive the whfb community can join forces and achieve positive changes regarding our hobby.
No, man. You want us to let them do whatever they want. Thats not how things should work. If you checked other companies, they focus on their customers demands, not just producing something, and hoping it will sell itself.
And, imageine, if you had only your lizzies. Then suddenly Gw removes your army. Maybe you find a friend of yours who plays with you at a club, but most of the players wont play with you, you wont be able to take part in competitions, because your army is outdated. Did you buy your lizzies just to build them, paint them, and watch on the shelf? Probably not.

 

[Mr Phat]

Not that im an admin or anything but could we keep the proper-tone?
quasi-emotional outbreaks and fingerpointing has no place in a rational debate.

If a bakery cant sell a type of bread, it will change the receipt or stops producing it. By forcing Gw to change and listen to their customers, I want to improve our game and our attitude related to Gw.

I think you are countersaying yourself.

they ARE changing the receipe, thats what 9th will be all about, as WHFB doesn't sell well to begin with.

also, by that logic, if we stop buying WHFB, what happens?
cutting GW short you might end warhammer fantasy all together.


Everybody feels on edge because of the rumours....rumours...rumours....
What if all the leaks are chinese whispers?
What if the "a lot of people in GW dont like the changes" are old-hammer veterans that hates anything after 4th ed?
What if the rumored game is an OPTIONAL way to play the game?
What if 9th becomes absolutely awesome?
What if Lizardmen are in fact surviving the end times, and evolves due to them no longer being bound
by the great plan?

everything, good and negative is "what if" right now.
We KNOW nothing (jon snow).

 

[Skinquisitor]

also, by that logic, if we stop buying WHFB, what happens?
cutting GW short you might end warhammer fantasy all together.

Yes, you are right about this, knowing their policy, this is a real possibility, that came to my mind aswell. But, yet again, what shall we do, to let our voice heard? There were some petitions, without any real effect. Shall we spam their customer suppor with mails? Theyd just delete them, im quite sure. In my opinion, what is wrong is not the game, but how they treat their customers. They are not trying to keep current ones while attracting new ones, they are focusing on the game. If we were asked about it, it would result in a better game, and it would increase our loyalty towards it, since we would feel that we are involved in it.
For example, check what happend to world of warcraft: everything was good, everyone was happy for a long period, few expansions later, they started to loose their customers. What they did was checking what was wrong, why the users turned away, and fixed it. Now, with the newest expansions, they are getting back users.
Maybe Gw should do the same, im pretty sure communicating with us would fix the problems, we could get a ~better game, and that would result an increase in their income, wich is their goal.

Everybody feels on edge because of the rumours....rumours...rumours....
What if all the leaks are chinese whispers?
What if the "a lot of people in GW dont like the changes" are old-hammer veterans that hates anything after 4th ed?
What if the rumored game is an OPTIONAL way to play the game?
What if 9th becomes absolutely awesome?
What if Lizardmen are in fact surviving the end times, and evolves due to them no longer being bound
by the great plan?

everything, good and negative is "what if" right now.
We KNOW nothing (jon snow).

Too many questions are open, I agree, I was talking about a situation, when the worst comes from our point of view. Id love to belive that these rumors were really fake, but all the leaked things point in one direction, while the alternative 'rumors' are just wishlisting and hopes. Id be the happiest person if these rumors were all fake. My emotes wish these rumors to be fake, but my brain tells otherwise.

 

[Mr Phat]

You are pretty much preaching to the choir


Everyone wishes that Games Workshop took their time to hear the community out.

But fact is:

- They dont do market research


Everyone knows that is their main problem.
You can bang your head towards their gates for as long as you want, it wont change before they see new management.
I hear they should be getting a new CEO this year, maybe that will stir things.

But for us right now, there really arent anything we can do except hoping for the best, and preparing for the worst.

 

[Skinquisitor]

I hear they should be getting a new CEO this year, maybe that will stir things.

Somewhere I read that aswell, It stated the new ceo comes in january. I hope he/she changes their policies, pr especially

 

[Rikard]

Thank you Phatmotha-phucka, for being the voice of wisdom and phrasing things more objectively.

I'll see if I can be a little more precise, with much less waffle (here goes nothing).

- everyone is entitled to their opinions, but there is a stark different between a chain of thought and an action (wanting to boycott something and actually rallying people to boycott something).
- My stance on this is aimed at the action side, I.E, please don't try to start a boycott on this site.


A boycott effectively is like a hostile negotiation: "I have done X to make things uncomfortable/difficult for you and will continue to do so until Y changes" it's basically a threat.
For argument's sake, what happens if a boycott is put forward and GW's income takes a dive? Depending on the severity a number of things could happen.

- They ignore it and carry on regardless.
- They make more changes, possibly harsher ones, to recuperate losses (which would be their ultimate goal)
- They increase prices.
- They downsize the number of hobby stores and/or staff.
- They increase the pressure on independent stockists, more direct only minis, more limited editions etc.
- They cut more more products/factions/streamline/squat the less profitable armies.
- The go into liquidation and no gets anything (this being the most extreme and unlikely example).

Four months is a very long time to wait (admittedly the fourth end times book might well offer a taste of the direction things are due to take, but it seems doubtful that it will point blank say that Lizardmen are finished never to return (that's where 9th edition comes in as far as drawing ultimate conclusions for everyone and everything).


If it helps, I'm seen so many rumours so far that are very widely scattered, but with the exception of Harry (who always is careful to never give away too much) I take all of it at face value and with a healthy dose of scepticism (though I'm aware I've done a poor job in reiterating it).

A Realisation.
One thing that has occured to me whilst typing out this message is this...

- In the past on places like warseer, if someone has leaked specific info GW have actually contacted the site in question and demanded the info to be removed (happened on warseer more than once). This became very frequent just after Dark Eldar got redone back in 2010 (or 2011) as they got rather annoyed with a lot of the vitriol that as being thrown around at the time.

Doesn't it seem odd that if anything posted so far was spot on it hasn't been removed?

Rumour wise here's what I've seen so far.

- 9th ed is an alternative time line to add diversity and flavour to the game.
- 9th ed is becoming the new Mordhiem.
- 9th ed is post end times with the world fragmented and pockets of reality bubbles float around in it.
- 9th ed is becoming the new 40K, in terms of place, good sides, bad sides and the equivalent of good chaos warriors on par with normal chaos warriors.
- World gets destroyed, but Liliath made a separate universe in which all the none chaos races move to in order to survive, whilst the original warhammer world is drowned in a sea of chaos.
- Lizardmen vanish into space.
- Lizardmen move temple cities elsewhere.
- Slann escape, majority of lizardmen left behind (under Krok gar's rule) they defeat and drive back skaven, but left unsure of what to do or where to go next.


There are plenty of variations, but most seem just speculative at best.

 

[Trociu]

A Realisation.
One thing that has occured to me whilst typing out this message is this...

- In the past on places like warseer, if someone has leaked specific info GW have actually contacted the site in question and demanded the info to be removed (happened on warseer more than once). This became very frequent just after Dark Eldar got redone back in 2010 (or 2011) as they got rather annoyed with a lot of the vitriol that as being thrown around at the time.

Doesn't it seem odd that if anything posted so far was spot on it hasn't been removed?

Rumour wise here's what I've seen so far.

- 9th ed is an alternative time line to add diversity and flavour to the game.
- 9th ed is becoming the new Mordhiem.
- 9th ed is post end times with the world fragmented and pockets of reality bubbles float around in it.
- 9th ed is becoming the new 40K, in terms of place, good sides, bad sides and the equivalent of good chaos warriors on par with normal chaos warriors.
- World gets destroyed, but Liliath made a separate universe in which all the none chaos races move to in order to survive, whilst the original warhammer world is drowned in a sea of chaos.
- Lizardmen vanish into space.
- Lizardmen move temple cities elsewhere.
- Slann escape, majority of lizardmen left behind (under Krok gar's rule) they defeat and drive back skaven, but left unsure of what to do or where to go next.


There are plenty of variations, but most seem just speculative at best.

I wanted to write something like this. I was wondering why GW haven't made a statement - many people around the world stopped buying miniatures because of this rumours. GW can't say that this is not true because of:
a)it is true
b)it is partially true

The b) basically means that we are talking about alternative game and since GW is not doing very well but isn't really going down it is very possible for them to seek (once again) new markets.

PS Who read new End Times book?

 

[KingCheops]

Customer boycotts have never been proven to work. Besides GW doesn't give a flying fudge about your FB money if the rumored 8% of revenue is true.

 

[SilverFaith]

In either case, considering WHFB have been stagnant for a long time, only very irregularly being given new army books (unlike 40k, which gets new ones all the time), it would make a lot of sense to make a new game using the same minis (keeping their current production line intact) while allowing different kinds of games to be played with them. However, it wouldn't make sense to just cut off WHFB entirely - 2 games using the same miniatures, but targeting different people, would make for better sales.

If they are truly annoying, they make the skirmish game require round bases, so people either need to buy new minis to play the new game, or spend time rebasing their current minis, or start magnetising things. i know a lot of people who would never bother with the last two options, so that's additional sales there.

I do find it funny that people say this has been hurting their sales. Can I get a source for that? I am honestly curious, because my limited research on the topic got nothing but people claiming it hurts their sales, but no actual evidence to the fact.

A couple of guys on the internet saying they aren't buying models =/= proof that GW is losing money on this entire thing.

If anything, I would think they are EARNING money, because my own small sample of players haven't been buying much of anything warhammer fantasy these past few YEARS, but several of them have picked up Nagash, Glottkin and the new vermin lords already.

 

[Man0waR]

I only have one army and is a Lizard one.

I find myself liking/disliking the background.

The whole scheme of the world destruction is awesome, the background given to our army is just meh.

If they exit the world they should be protecting and when things went wrong as its supposed to work they don't know what to do...
Where the hell will they go? They will roam through the space? What kind of wise decission is that?

As awesome the Slann should they be, they keep being a non sense. No action, no awesome powers. Nothing.
They just sleep and get killed.

As I am more oriented to field a Saurus general than Slann (due to magic being too randomized) I would like to see our army survivors going to war lead by Oldbloods to pursue the only available Old One plan and the only one they understand.
Purge the world , killing the unwanted beings.

It's ok for me the slann go to the skies and search for answers, take the temple guard with them and some skinks assistants, trying to find the way to recreate spawning pools. Keeping contact with some skink priest or Slann who rules the last strongholds.

So i dont give a shit if the slann just go AFK. What I want is Saurus waging war. They are designed for that, they are not all temple guards. Just land one of this flying pyramid into a battlefield and see hundred of saurus warriors in formation advance throught the stairs of the pyramid into the fray.

 

[Mr Phat]

wauw how would I hate if our fluff became reduced to just
"...and saurus is the warrior caste"



what I love about lizard fluff, is its entirety.
I think the saurus fill a pretty blunt role, and as they are my favorite type of lizard
I would hate them to be reduced to even more "they can fight".

I'd much rather have them find themselves with new purposes and character.

When I heard about the rumour of a "magical coatl feathered saurus"
during our last book I was so thrilled I couldn't contain it.
"Here comes a Saurus lvl 3 caster"

Turned out to be the new priest sculpt...and saurus got more saurused into their saurus sauce...

A scar vet is a saurus who saurus a lot better than other saurus, cause he has saurused for a long time!

an OLDBLOOD is a saurus who saurus WAY better than other saurus cause he saurused LONG before other saurus
even BEGAN to saurus!

 

[Mr Phat]

If I offended your point of view, I am so saurus!

 

[n810]

It might be interesting that if while leaving orbit, the Slann discover an Old One craft still in orbit, containing the secret of the spawning pools (and other awesome stuff).

- Old Ones be praised the plan was right.