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8th Ed. Bad news: Everybody should read.

GCPD said:
Hmm. Given that of those 6 rumoured combined books, we essentially already have 4 (Undead Legion, Chaos Legion, Elves, upcoming Skaven). It's possible that all we're seeing here is the distortion effect of just what will be live when 9th edition drops: lists from the End Times books plus Fantasy Marines.

Or maybe just post-ET versions of those lists will be in the immediate 9th edition run, with everyone else coming thereafter. Bare in mind that we rarely hear rumours more than 6-12 months out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still don't know what the 5th and 6th ET books are and those are due in the next 6.

It's entirely possible that the things we're not hearing about are just too far away, and interpretation is claiming that they are being squatted.
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As i already pointed out, the rumours doesn't say armiems will be removed, just that 9th will only have 6 armies - which could quickly expand to include the original armies over time.

Considering how GW handles 40k, even the old merged armies will likely get their own books anyway. So if Elves are one of the factions, we'd get a supplement called "High Elves" and "Dark Elves" and "Wood Elves", for example.

I don't believe they'd remove armies. I also don't believe any company, not just GW, could handle remaking entire rulesets for 15 different factions just like that, to fit an entirely new ruleset. They need to start somewhere, and it makes perfect sense to exclude some armies to get the new edition started, and then reintroduce them later.

Or maybe this whole thing is a misunderstanding, and it's actually a new spin-off of Warhammer. Who knows. Whineseer is famous for blowing things way out of proportions, and neglecting to mention, or even think, that maybe it isn't as bad as it sounds. Practically every time a new unit is released, Whineseer blows up because "OMG SO OVERPOWERED, WTFBBQ", and it is NEVER true in practice. I really wouldn't put too much credit into what these people say.
 
Perhaps it means that these 6 armies have their "codexes" included in the BRB ??? :jawdrop: o_O :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
 
n810 said:
Perhaps it means that these 6 armies have their "codexes" included in the BRB ??? :jawdrop: o_O :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
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Oh god I hope not.

I don't want to pay 300£+ just for the BRB. Knowing GW, that WILL be the price if they do such a thing. 30£*6+50£, as is the usual price, and we all know how GW and their "bundles" work.

This particular topic, I am extremely worried about. GW doesn't quite seem to grasp the concept of "bundles", or what this weird marketing word called "Discount" is all about.
 
Im a bit worried... various sources point to the same direction, wich is our eradication. You can say, the community will make liz live on, but god damn it, I didnt spent hundreds of pounds on a hobby, wich once says: hello, f*ck your factions, you are removed from the game, no updates, no rules for you from this day. Even if i keep playing with 8th edition, i wont be able to take part in most of the competitions, wich are the main reason i play (besides of modelling). Basically, just wtf? Give me back my money then... There must be a lot of us feeling the same way. You just can take away our game like this!

19e2td3afzx2vjpg.jpg
 
I have a funny feeling we are not gonna be the only ones. I have this idea that although there will be an undead faction,daemon , ect ect... These new factions will have 3 new core sets,characters, and some specials. Then every so often new specials will be released.

The point I am making is that although undead will have a faction don't expect that they can use their old models unless they are using their 8th book. Their new book will be for new models
 
So on The Electors Forum, one of the members was able to dig up the latest shareholder finance report:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Games-Workshop-Group-14-combined-FINAL-cover-version.pdf

While I haven't worked my way through a good portion of it, here are a few things that stand out:

----"We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."

----On pages five and six you can see that they are by no means at a low point in profits. Shareholder value as well as return capital, while having taken a hit this year, have been much much lower (see 2006/2007).

The first I put on as a bit of a slap to the face. The second to show that this fear of "Oh no GW is going to completely destroy WHFB" seems a bit irrational considering it wasn't done back in 06/07. Again, I haven't had the time to go through it all, so I may very well have missed some vital info. Hence why I put it up for all of you to look at. Hope this helps!
 
From the most recent WD:

"To the stars some will go, but the stars themselves will abandon this world" - Thanquol.

Te first half of that sentence could easily be inferred to be talking about the interstellar exodus of the LM, especially as it's confirmed the Lizadmen have flying pyramids.
 
So if reality becomes a bunch of "bubbles," and the Lizardmen do blast off into space...

then wouldn't we still exist in those bubbles, as they aren't limited to the Old World? Didn't the same thing just happen to the Elves via Lileath?

Also, don't we have an awful lot of current inconsistencies in our book that look to be written that way intentionally? Say, for a new 9th edition ruleset, perhaps?

And like... all manners of newer kits/molds?

I dunno. I don't see us being cut, I guess.

The oddball rules that seem to be oriented for a new ruleset, the recent release of our book, the new kits, the Beasts of Lustria bundle, and all the other goings-ons of other armies...

I mean, maybe we get lumped into a faction of some kind, but I'm hard-pressed to believe that GW would just drop all of their investment. That is such a massive loss.

Besides, Lizardmen don't even sell that poorly compared to other armies while offering something that quite a lot of other tabletop games don't:

WICKAD DINOSAWZ BRAH
 
Ugh, if these rumours are true then GW are lazy and stupid and hate their fanbase.

Wait, we already knew all that...

But seriously, I realise they're a business simply out to make The Next Big Thing to sell in droves, but deciding that wiping clean the exisitng lore is "moving it forwards" is such a creative cop out.

Just like with the latest Necron reboot, instead of working with the (challenging) existing material they simply retcon and reboot.

Whilst it remains to be seen what the actual truth of the future of WFB is, if the Lizards are out then so am I.
 
I doubt Lizardmen will be axed. We'll still be a part of the world some way. Super armoured humans? Where'd they get this technology? Could be from us. Ever played Rise of Legends? The aesthetic works.

http://www.jaygillen.com/gameart_gallery/rise_of_legends/concepts/Cuotl_04.jpg
http://www.jaygillen.com/gameart_gallery/rise_of_legends/concepts/Cuotl_09.jpg
http://www.jaygillen.com/gameart_gallery/rise_of_legends/concepts/Cuotl_08.jpg

Who knows.

That said, in the event that we are killed off... do you really think Lizardmen will disappear without support? Ha! Ever been to chaos-dwarfs.com? Those guys have a great community, which produced at least two near professional quality army books (not lists, whole books) before Tamurkhan came out, as well as many amazing sculpts and conversions. If such a niche army can survive, a hugely active community with much more recent models, lists and support like ours will be fine.
 
Im also getting more and more certain that we will endure.

The whole exodus thing is something THEY HAD TO DO given Mayan history and myth.

it being a exodus and not extinction is in itself a sign of them wanting us to live on,
as end times hasn't exactly been "happy ending for everyone".
 
After seeing the reactions to these rumors I'm cautiously optimistic... with an extra dose of cautious. I only have my one Lizardmen army from 6th, and it's not that large to begin with. The End Times brought me back and convinced (read:suckered) me into buying a few of their larger kits. The idea that the entire range may be invalid in 6 months is more than frustrating... needless to say I won't be deciding if I will make any more purchases until the new edition is released.

I'm optimistic that all the work and time that went into the fairly recent lizardmen releases will not be shelved. Most of the rumors support games still set aside in a "historic" setting or perhaps in a new bubble with very similar rules to what we have now. Heck, 9th may even give us some unintentional perk like a cannon nerf. Combines profiles sound pretty likely, which will change our meta for sure.

The rumors suggest that there are rules that the new factions will be able to utilize that "historic" 8th armies can't. Sounds somewhat like playing against an end time army now. I haven't played against the new elven host, but with the variety of what they can bring sure seems to me like it gives them a strong advantage. I imagine facing a Faction will be the same concept, an uphill battle in some way maybe, but still could be fun. It's important to remember that most other armies are in the same position that we are. The new "human" faction looks like it has to have room for dwarves and ogres which would effectively squat out all but a couple units, so they are in danger of having most of their range invalidated too.

As far as the concern of future support, what do we have now? GW sure hasn't shown any concern to the community when it comes to an errata or FAQ for issues in our book... just look at how long we have fought over predatory fighter. 9th may come with an answer for that built into the rules, but it may also break functioning rules and I for one wouldn't hold my breath for a FAQ even if they did claim to support us.

No new models? Most editions seems to invalidate some existing units while adding more overpriced kits. If lizardmen are not in one of the initial factions it's very likely they will be re-introduced with new units anyhow. Limited runs spook me though, and who's to say that if/when we come back we don't replace skinks and saurus with new core units... At least we get another year or so to use what we have now in a "historic" setting.

This last bit is just speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Kroak survive this (and lizardmen as a whole by extension). He does have a pretty slick model after all. Isn't there also a mention in the army book about him being there at the start of the universe and that he will be there at the end?
 
Despite my agitating in order to profiteer off of this I am also in the camp that we'll likely survive in some form. If insane space-elf-clowns can get a small army book I'm sure we'll get stuff at some point. Also if it goes to more of a Battlescrolls format then I can easily see stuff like Beasts of Lustria formation and what not. I mean that extra finger slot on the Solar Engine must mean something right? Right?!?

Also the idea of loose versus tight formation is an idea I'd been toying with for a while to bring WFB movement more into line with the reality of Line of Battle warfare. Being able to take your 25 sauruses and put them in skirmish formation to quickly move through terrain and then get them back into rank and file to set for a charge is the meat of LoB warfare. Older editions failed on the rock-paper-scissors of Cavalry versus Infantry and I feel that 8th edition really f*ed up with Steadfast so something like this -- which is based on chess style player interaction instead of WFB rules interaction -- is IMO much better.
 
actually those where rules from the old Lustria campaign book. :D
 
Here is a crazy random thought... o_O

What if GW actually is guilty of the original rumor, but has no intention of following through with such madness? If you look on all the forums, word has spread like wildfire and the rumor, for some, has seemingly become a fact. Before this rumor came out, a good majority of the WH community was complaining about ET. If 9th comes out with a lot of ET rules in mind and no major change, the community isn't as angry and becomes more accepting. I'm sure I'm giving GW too much credit, but who knows?
 
Moniker said:
That said, in the event that we are killed off... do you really think Lizardmen will disappear without support? Ha! Ever been to chaos-dwarfs.com? Those guys have a great community, which produced at least two near professional quality army books (not lists, whole books) before Tamurkhan came out, as well as many amazing sculpts and conversions. If such a niche army can survive, a hugely active community with much more recent models, lists and support like ours will be fine.
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THIS!

Forever this! Rain or shine, good or bad, I have no intention of going out quietly or being forgotten.
 
Rikard said:
Moniker said:
That said, in the event that we are killed off... do you really think Lizardmen will disappear without support? Ha! Ever been to chaos-dwarfs.com? Those guys have a great community, which produced at least two near professional quality army books (not lists, whole books) before Tamurkhan came out, as well as many amazing sculpts and conversions. If such a niche army can survive, a hugely active community with much more recent models, lists and support like ours will be fine.
Click to expand...


THIS!

Forever this! Rain or shine, good or bad, I have no intention of going out quietly or being forgotten.
Click to expand...

We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our model collection, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the forums, we shall fight on the gaming tables, we shall fight in the plastic forests and in the spaces between small buildings, we shall fight in the model hills both stepped and smooth; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this model collection or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire (not Karl Franz’s Empire) beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the L-O forumites, would carry on the struggle, until, in the Old Ones good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

The Old One Winston Churchill went on to say, “Above all, we shall not assume Games Workshop is going to discontinue our army until we have hard evidence.”


HUZZAH!!! HUZZAH!!! HUZZAH!!!
 
lordkingcrow said:
Here is a crazy random thought... o_O

What if GW actually is guilty of the original rumor, but has no intention of following through with such madness? If you look on all the forums, word has spread like wildfire and the rumor, for some, has seemingly become a fact. Before this rumor came out, a good majority of the WH community was complaining about ET. If 9th comes out with a lot of ET rules in mind and no major change, the community isn't as angry and becomes more accepting. I'm sure I'm giving GW too much credit, but who knows?
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I doubt that this would be the case, as 9th is still several months away, and this turmoil is already hurting their sales. I know several people that has postponed their planned purchases until we know more, myself included.

So while the "idea" is not bad, if you just consider the rules side, but when you count in sales as well, its less likely.
 
On a slightly optimistic note, if GW in fact does split the world up into little bubbles, who says the Lizardmen cant be in canon with it, because we know the LM have flying pyramids in space and the other races are floating around in bubbles, who's to say that a pyramid or temple ship cant collide with one of the bubbles. It would add a great deal more diversity to the situation and the LM could still be the kind of mysterious outsider race that not many of the other races know about.
 
I still cannot believe how anyone can take this rumour at face value.

Stop and think for a second. Consider the following points:
1. Plastic kits cost a fortune to produce, but lasts for several years. Does stopping the use of them after less than half of their expected use seem like a smart move to you?

2. How much time does it usually take to update an army book?

2.1. How long would it then take, if the entire BRB is completely rewritten from a wargame to a skirmish type of game?

3. GW hates competition. Does anyone honestly think they'd cut their more unique armies, with tons of kits, which have very few alternate options, but keep around the generic kind that can easily be found cheaper elsewhere?

From a business standpoint, it is a huge gamble to do this kind of thing. That said, it isn't really insane or stupid. Calculated risks and all that.

What IS insane, is rewritting the core rules AND 15 army books, before releasing ANYTHING. Now THAT would be ridiculously poor business management. Really, even 4 books would have been a good start.

Worse, the rumour itself hasn't really specified who the factions are, so the whole "these armies will get cut, and these will just be rolled into other armies!" is just people guessing - this isn't isn't even rumours anymore. And really, rolling empire and brets into one seems feasible, but rolling dwarfs AND ogres into the human army? Are you kidding me?

Tl;dr: Stop jumping to conclusions based on RUMOURS or worse, REACTIONS and GUESSES based on those rumours. The rumours are of dubious validity in the first place, but the guesses based on those rumours are on par with wishlisting in terms of validity.
 
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