8th Ed. Bad news: Everybody should read.

[Mr Phat]

had some thoughts that made me calm again.

Given the high standard of unofficial army books the community have made over time.

Given the large amount of alternative model producers out there

and given the communitys vast ressources in adaption and systems


I think we will be allright.

 

[Rettile]

Really bad news. If this happens it would be great to make a "rule task force" to have "the official unofficial final warhammer edition", which fixes bugs and balances the armies with a huge free pdf document

 

[Ranorian]

The more I consider this possibility the more...I actually kind of like it (gasp!)

The Warhammer Fantasy world has been stagnant for years and years, especially after the silliness that was the Storm of Chaos. Nothing ever changes; Chaos attacks, murders everyone, but somehow the horribly weak (fluff-wise) Empire survives, Lizardmen look bored in the temples and murder interlopers, Skaven come within a whisker of ruling the world...it all just repeats. Any attempt to drum up excitement was sort of "meh" since we knew that they wouldn't seriously mess with the setting. The End Times has seriously changed that, for the better.

Because the world is so stagnant narrative-wise, it's hard to play around creatively with that setting. I can see them sitting down to a meeting and coming to the hard truth that if they want to do something interesting and new, they need to annihilate the existing setting and start over. Besides, with all this End Times stuff going on, if they just went "Oh, it's pretty much the same still, carry on", I'd be kinda upset. The world getting ripped apart? Now THAT'S an apocalypse!

As lizardmen players, even if we get cut, we'll be fine. Like Phatmotha said above me, we've got a massive resource of really dedicated people and a whole industry churning out great models. We'll be fine. I think it will be interesting to see what Games Workshop comes up with next.

 

[Kblock]

I really hope these rumors are not true. I only started playing WHF about 2 years ago starting with small games using other players armies, and then getting my own army. Having to stop using any army I have only had for a little over a year would be a real drag.

I think that the other players in my gaming group would still continue to use the 8th Ed. rules to keep playing. But knowing that there are no new models or rules to come out would be kind of depressing. Eliminating the Lizardmen from the WHF world means I would not buy a new army. I might use my son's DE army, but it would not be the same as fighting with my Lizardmen.

We will have to wait and see what GW has in store for the Warhammer world and armies. I hope it does not become a totally new game.

 

[Slanputin]

As lizardmen players, even if we get cut, we'll be fine. Like Phatmotha said above me, we've got a massive resource of really dedicated people and a whole industry churning out great models. We'll be fine.

As LM players, if we're cut, we'd be left in the dust behind official releases for both models, rules updates, and any further dynamic game changes in the future. Yes, there is opportunity to use 8th Ed. rule-books in the 9th, but to do so will leave you outdated and ill-adapted in comparison to the 6 core factions.

Having to rely on alternative miniatures and unofficial rules doesn't sound fine to me. I like to use alternative miniatures, but LM still receive support from GW - whose game I play - so I'm content. Being forced to use them is another matter.

That's not to say I hate the changes in the setting or the fluff - I'm suspending my judgement on that one. It is interesting if anything.

I just hope what the online community appear to be inferring to be wrong. I mean, they *could* drop O&G and keep us on, riggghhhttt??

 

[Rikard]

"These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers)"


Am I the only one who is deeply amused by the irony/hypocrisy of this statement?

Harry is the one person whose rumours I take as canon, as he's not been wrong so far. Everything else, as usual, more salt please.

That all aside, I am determined to make this change as much of a positive one as I am able, regardless of how badly/well things are altered and I will start by casting every single lizardman I have, if the IP vanishes. Technically I probably could have gotten away with most of them in the past anyone (this even before the days of GW VS Chapterhouse).

This is not something I'm doing out of spite, but to try and make the best of a bad situation, I don't work as a full time sculptor, I have never have and never will, but it seems ridiculous not to try and at least give something back if the Lizardman IP vanishes.



I fully agree with Phatmotha-phucka, if Lustria-Online continues, then I see no reason why people can't pool their collective intelligence/knowledge to make new units, fluff, weapons and fan made rules, so long as the PDFs are fair, balanced and free, there's no harm in that.

EDIT 2:
Heck, if people are able to get on board with making fan based fluff, campaigns, units/monster, I'll even sculpt them.

 

[KingCheops]

I fully agree with Phatmotha-phucka, if the Lustria-Online continues, then I see no reason why people can't pool their collective intelligence/knowledge to make new units, fluff, weapons and fan made rules, so long as the PDFs are fair, balanced and free, there's no harm in that.

No! Stop being reasonable! I need people to rage quit so I can get all the models I want for cheap!

The sky is falling everyone! The GW police will come to your house/club/store and make sure you are only using 9th edition rules and models! You can never use your old models again! Sell them on ebay for pennies on the dollar ASAP!

 

[Stegadeth]

Hmmm.

The only argument that's quelling an anxiety is that moulds are really expensive to make. Considering the new Lm releases just last year, I expect they'd want to get further use out of them?

Who can say..

These are the End Times.

This is currently where I am hanging my hopes right now too. It would be a huge middle finger (or the rods in the UK I guess) to loyal customers if they released a new Army Book and models and then discontinued that Army two years later.

 

[Padre]

I'm still torn on these rumors. My initial reaction is similar to my reaction to the Hobbit movies. They are great, I love the stories and the special effects and all. But they aren't the Hobbit. Similarly, I trust that GW is going to make a great, fun game. But it won't be Warhammer Fantasy.

I play Fantasy because of the background. I play because I want to play in a Tolkien-esque high fantasy world where High Elves and Wood Elves are not the same. I like that there are two kinds of Undead. What draws me is the depth of the world. I don't care that Tomb Kings and Wood Elves shouldn't be fighting.

Part of the draw of the game for me is that there are fifteen races, not six factions. I suspect that we only have a small part of the picture. We will see in six months.

 

[Rhavin]

Take this as you will, but a rumor from Bell of Lost souls about the rundown of the planned new faction breakdown:

And Earlybird chimes in:

from the horse mouth

factions :

1) Chaos : Demons + Beasts + Mortals
2) Elves
3) Empire
4) Undead
5) Orcs and Goblins
6) Skavens

Lizards are gone in space.
Dwarves survivors join the empire with the ogres.

1) Chaos core : Warriors of chaos/chariot/Hounds
Demons figs will be kept as they are usable in 40k
Bye bye marauders, ungors, centigors, razorgor etc

2) Elves core : spearmen/archers/cavalry on horse
No more xbows
the 3 elves will blend in one faction
dark elves monsters are gone : cold ones, hydra

3) Empire core: Hallberds/Handgun/Canon
Some dwarves survivors and ogres are included
Imperial and bretonnian knights are merged

4) Undead core : Skeletons/Ghouls/Spirit host
bye bye bone giant, scorpion sphinx, chariots and everything too much egyptian

5) Orcs and goblins core : Goblins/Orcs/Black orcs
no real change for them

6) Skaven core : Clanrats/Plague rats/Rat ogres
no real change for them too

Hope this is an unsubstantiated rumor.
Link to the page:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/breaking-wfb-9th-explodes.html

 

[Slanputin]

I fully agree with Phatmotha-phucka, if Lustria-Online continues, then I see no reason why people can't pool their collective intelligence/knowledge to make new units, fluff, weapons and fan made rules, so long as the PDFs are fair, balanced and free, there's no harm in that.

EDIT 2:
Heck, if people are able to get on board with making fan based fluff, campaigns, units/monster, I'll even sculpt them.

Ah, now that is a lovely idea. I'm certainly not abandoning my core army if they disappear, so I wouldn't mid throwing in with that.

I'm still torn on these rumors. My initial reaction is similar to my reaction to the Hobbit movies. They are great, I love the stories and the special effects and all. But they aren't the Hobbit. Similarly, I trust that GW is going to make a great, fun game. But it won't be Warhammer Fantasy.

I play Fantasy because of the background. I play because I want to play in a Tolkien-esque high fantasy world where High Elves and Wood Elves are not the same. I like that there are two kinds of Undead. What draws me is the depth of the world. I don't care that Tomb Kings and Wood Elves shouldn't be fighting

Quite. There a varying degrees of change and, whilst the idea of bubblehammer is interesting, I'm less concerned if the narrative moves forward than the existence of a nuanced, expansive setting.

My army background is built upon the local culture of a LM populace (specifically those based in the Spine of Sotek), and I play the game to battle across it's regions. Its meta-narrative isn't wholly important - Chaos could be on the lip of conquering the world and it'd still be fine because the setting is there. I can select to build a LM army to guard the building of Conquata in Albion, protect the borders of the Southlands from Tomb Kings, or garrison Itza. I expected maybe a few continental shifts to occur in ET, and that would still form a coherent setting. But bubbles.... I'm concerned they may dampen such creativity.

We shall see.

Hope this is an unsubstantiated rumor.
Link to the page:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/breaking-wfb-9th-explodes.html

I read this as speculation? I hope it is!

 

[lordkingcrow]

I play Fantasy because of the background. I play because I want to play in a Tolkien-esque high fantasy world where High Elves and Wood Elves are not the same. I like that there are two kinds of Undead. What draws me is the depth of the world. I don't care that Tomb Kings and Wood Elves shouldn't be fighting.

Part of the draw of the game for me is that there are fifteen races, not six factions. I suspect that we only have a small part of the picture. We will see in six months.

+1
While I'm in the group that refuses to believe in rumor until proven wrong, I would also like to add that I never really had difficulty coming up with a reason why any race would be fighting. As my gaming group knows, I will take out the big map of the world, find a reasonable situation why the races would meet there and thus justify the battle. Hell, the Woodies might have had... I don't know, a sacred acorn, stolen from a grove. The acorn was sold by several merchants and eventually came into the hands a High Elf prince. Would the Woodies, upon learning of it's location, make a move to take it back? I don't know, but that's what I'm running with for this battle and everyone seems to think it justifiable. Heck, it makes the game more interesting. Boom. A reason for this battle has been made. Huzzah! All it takes is a little bit of imagination.

 

[Padre]

I had some further thoughts on how I'd think this was the greatest idea ever and I'd probably praise GW to the high heavens. (Note: I have nothing to base this off of other than wishlisting.)

What if this was not the core of 9th Ed., but a revamp of Mordheim? A skirmish-level game based on the concept of raiding other realities for supplies, slaves, resources, etc. Core 9th would allow us to play historical games throughout the history of the Warhammer world while the plot develops and advances through this new Specialist Game.

 

[SilverFaith]

Assuming this is true, I don't think there is any reason to worry.

My initial thought was "Go home whineseer, you're drunk", my second thought was "if this is true, GW are more mentally challenged than retarded children", and then I settled on this:

If GW does something this insane, the amount of revamping needed is INSANE. You can't just call it 9th edition, Warhammer skirmish, and call it a day - all armies would need new books to work.

6 armies seems like a good starting point, allowing people to start playing, and getting new blood into the hobby. They'll then start releasing the new books, which reintroduces the missing armies.

So say we have:
Human
Space Marines (I can't stop laughing, this is so hillariously stupid, I don't even)
Skaven
Chaos
Elves
Undead

I don't think Ogres, Orcs, Dwarfs (who got their army book like 6 month ago), lizardmen, etc. will just get axed. But it takes effort and time to make a completely new army book, so in order to do this, they start by releasing these 6, and then slowly start releasing the old books.

Fearmongering is what whineseer does best, however, and I can't really be this negative towards this rumour - GW may be dumb and bad at business, but not THIS bad. I am 100% sure they wont axe several armies. Merge a few, sure, but outright remove 3-4 unique armies? No. Especially not ones with 40+ different models in production by GW.

 

[Lawot]

When the choices are "make no money at all" or "make some money with a totally new approach" I think it's clear what the better choice is.

I'm with Sleboda on this one. This is obviously an extreme move, but that doesn't make it necessarily insane. If it's true that GW's been losing money, they need a new strategy. They might alienate their older players, but that only matters (financially) if the older players spend more money on the hobby than new players. Personally, I've got most of the models I need for a Lizardmen army, and I look at ebay first for stuff that I want. I haven't bought anything from GW in years. Why should they worry what I think? The idea of an ever-changing model line-up, with rules in each box rather than in one book, makes a lot of sense to keep players buying new things.

I wish they'd keep the game closer to the tradition, but I know that they've got a business to run, and I can't blame them for drastically changing things, even if that's a bummer for me.

But anyways, I'll probably keep playing 8th, too. Even without new rules and models, my friends and I have plenty of untested possibilities for destroying each other.

 

[Mr Phat]

They might alienate their older players, but that only matters (financially) if the older players spend more money on the hobby than new players.

Where this strategy will fail (and this is my personal prediction from my observations)
is the implication that there per definition will be "new players".
GW dont advertise
GW dont make marketing research
(these are their own proud words).

My observation is that the only channel to new customers, at least here in Denmark, is their existing consumer base.
I got in the hobby from friends, and a vast majority of our environment has been hooked up by someone in the
community. "Come try this out, we have tons of fun" was what got me in.

What happens when "Come try this" becomes

"GW dont care about their fanbase, I just squatted multiple collections of miniatures Ive bought across 10+ years. Ive moved over to this game, come try it out, we have lots of fun."

I haven't bought anything from GW in years. Why should they worry what I think?

Thats actually quite simple:
If there is demand on their product that reaches second or thirdhand buyers, it means their product is more worth.

What is easier to sell?

A Saurus miniature that has value for the initial buyer
or
A Saurus miniature that has value for the initial buyer, which he knows is enough worth for him to sell it on.

I'd choose the second, as that would mean the initial buyer would be more inclined to buy from me, as he would be able to sell my product again when he got tired of it.
It would also mean that he is more inclined to buy something new from me.

When you buy something used on ebay you aren't denying them a sale of a Saurus Miniature,
you are boosting the brand and demand of the product and enables the initial buyer to buy more.

I wish they'd keep the game closer to the tradition, but I know that they've got a business to run, and I can't blame them for drastically changing things, even if that's a bummer for me.

Agreed. What hurts me is that it doesn't seem like the strategy will change anything at all, but rather make things worse.
My feeling is that they destroy what we love to gain something that wont come to them.
It leaves both them and us with less.

But anyways, I'll probably keep playing 8th, too. Even without new rules and models, my friends and I have plenty of untested possibilities for destroying each other.

I think you underestimate the value of new input.
Lizardmen meta doesn't only change when Lizardmen gets a new book,
It changes everytime a new unit sees the table, as you will have to come up with new methods and lists.

While 8th CAN live a LONG time after this without support (it already did)
It will eventual reach still water, and then you will either stop or move on to 9th.




sorry if I come of as out to get you, I really just had another view.
I totally get where you are coming from.

 

[n810]

Leading to the inevitable Scalenex/Spawing-of-Bob Lizardmen Codex.

 

[Scalenex]

Leading to the inevitable Scalenex/Spawing-of-Bob Lizardmen Codex.

We actually did brainstorm stuff but our views are too crazy divergent. Mostly tongue in cheek. Scalenex's doomed legions versus Bob's wacky fools. I don't believe the doomsayers of warseer, but if 9th edition does axe the Lizards we can try a serious army list.

 

[GCPD]

Hmm. Given that of those 6 rumoured combined books, we essentially already have 4 (Undead Legion, Chaos Legion, Elves, upcoming Skaven). It's possible that all we're seeing here is the distortion effect of just what will be live when 9th edition drops: lists from the End Times books plus Fantasy Marines.

Or maybe just post-ET versions of those lists will be in the immediate 9th edition run, with everyone else coming thereafter. Bare in mind that we rarely hear rumours more than 6-12 months out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still don't know what the 5th and 6th ET books are and those are due in the next 6.

It's entirely possible that the things we're not hearing about are just too far away, and interpretation is claiming that they are being squatted.

 

[Mr Phat]

It's entirely possible that the things we're not hearing about are just too far away, and interpretation is claiming that they are being squatted.

I am also hoping for the things we HAVNT heard yet.

We are watching the shadows but not the object that casts it.