AoS Auto-win AoS

[protector]

You could only summon 4 per turn,

"CASTING SPELLS
All wizards can use the spells described
below, as well as any spells listed on their
warscroll. A wizard can only attempt to cast
each spell once per turn."

Each slann can attempt to cast 3 times per phase, with 4 slann that equals 12 casting attempts to summon different units, I could only summon 4 of one type of unit, but as GW employees have already stated I don't need to have a unit on the battlefield to summon it.

Another thing: if all of your starting models are slain, you automatically lose regardless.

"GLORIOUS VICTORY, p.2
For example, if one
player lost 75% of their starting models, and
the other player lost 50%, then the player
that only lost 50% of their models could
claim a minor victory.

Models added to your army during the
game (for example, through summoning,
reinforcements, reincarnation and so on) do
not count towards the number of models in
the army, but must be counted among the
casualties an army suffers."

Actually that is incorrect, through the rules the opposing player will only be able to claim a Major Victory if I have no models on the table, whereas if I choose endure and have Oxyotl left on the battlefield by the end of turn 6 I then achieve a Major Victory. What you are describing happens when a major victory cannot be achieved and instead "the outcome is not obvious, then a result of sorts can be calculated" in which you calculate the % of models slain which would almost certainly place my opponent above me. This would only happen if at the end of turn 6 my opponent was able to destroy all the original models that I deployed, at that point he would gain a Minor Victory

These summon-heavy armies would actually have to table the opponent's entire army in order to get a major victory, as a minor victory would probably be hard to get: you better believe that your opponent, if they've read the rules, will chase all of your starting units to the last.

This would only be true if the opponent started with 6 or less models, if he/she has 7 or more models then I can achieve a major victory through any of the chosen sudden death scenarios.

Furthermore, 7 or more models should be able to create a sufficient cloud through which Oxyotl would have a hard time coming onto the board in range... it wouldn't be much for your opponent to create a 16" radius around the model in question, given the appropriate battle.

I'm really not sure what you are getting at here, to be able to cover the entire board so that no space has more than a 3" gap between enemy units is almost impossible. And even then you would have to cover the area so that you were assured to be able to remove 4 wounds from Oxyotl in a single combat phase. This is also assuming you were able to destroy all 4 slann prior to the 6th turn, which would also be incredibly difficult due to Chakax rules allowing for multiple of him guarding each slann and re-allocating wounds.

I do not mean to come across contradictory but I believe you may need to re-read the rules on some of these points, specifically sudden death scenarios and achieving victory conditions.

 

[Ixt]

My bad - it looked like you were implying that you'd be summoning 12 Oxyotl.

You just told me that I was incorrect about the effects of losing your original models, but then reinforced my point about losing your original models, by the way... so...

As far as your opponent having so few models, you getting sudden death, etc., I don't mean any offense but I seriously doubt that the majority of players will be playing the game with 4 Slann and Oxyotl solely to hide Oxyotl for 6 turns, summon their army, and say, "I win." My statement was more of just a general thing about summoning: lose the original ones, and you lose.

About your last point, it reflects my previous ones: with such an army, I figured that you'd be using Oxyotl with the Assassinate objective. I guess some of us just aren't meant for the WAAC playstyle.

 

[Scalenex]

I guess some of us just aren't meant for the WAAC playstyle.

What is WAAC style?

 

[Caprasauridae]

What is WAAC style?

Oh, sweet innocent Scalenex. WAAC = Win At All Cost. I guess you should be happy if you haven't had the pleasure to face a WAAC player.

 

[KillerK]

you must have a mode on the table at all times, other wise you auto loose.

I hate labeling players, its not WAAC players Its a WAAC game. Dont blame players for playing accordingly to the rules. The rules arent what you would want them to be because they were printed by GW, go blame them.

 

[Caprasauridae]

Of course you can blame the players. It is the basis of morality to not do everything you can do. What WAAC truly is depends on the player and the opponent. Some want the opponent to not spare any punches, test their wit against the toughest lists. Any tournament play this is given.

Sorry, getting off topic here.

 

[KillerK]

So basically you blame others, who don't play like you imagine the game should be played. Instead they have the nerve to actually play by the rules that are given to them.
Well good luck to you sir.

 

[Qupakoco]

Keep it friendly please, my fellow lizards.

 

[Scalenex]

If the goal is to balance Age of Sigmar, then we need some players to turn Age of Sigmar on it's ear and exploit every possible advantage. In order to set limitations we have to first find the outer edge of what is possible if only to know what to restrict.

 

[pendrake]

How about 3 Carnosaurs, 3 Cannons and 2 Slann. Is that 8 models?

(Cannon may be four models? Do you automatically deploy cannon and crew together? Does it explicitly say this anywhere? Can you deploy 6 crew per cannon?)

 

[hdctambien]

How about 3 Carnosaurs, 3 Cannons and 2 Slann. Is that 8 models?

(Cannon may be four models? Do you automatically deploy cannon and crew together? Does it explicitly say this anywhere? Can you deploy 6 crew per cannon?)

Contrast the cannon/crew warscroll with the Skink Handlers/Salamander warscrolls. I believe each cannon is deployed with the crew (for 4 models) while the Skink Handlers are deployed independently of the Salamanders (or not deployed at all!).

The craziest exploitative army we've come up with at my store is Oxyotl, Nagash, Lord of Change (and as many Chameleon Skinks deployed off the board as you can afford). 3 models, so you get sudden death if your opponent deploys at least 4 models and you have the summoning power to build a giant army by turn 2. (Lord of Change can summon an exponential number of Lords of Change and Nagash is still a summoning beast), Meanwhile Oxyotl is hidden until turn 6 when he will reappear and win. Also, the chameleon skinks can keep entering the board to pick on war machines, etc and keep you from getting tabled in case you are rolling really poorly with your summoning attempts.

Also, you don't have to stop at those 3 models. When it is time for you to deploy a 4th unit, just do the math and keep yourself within Sudden Death range and keep deploying small, defensive-focused models. (a nice trick is finding models that ignore Rend and have low armor saves, then you can spam the +1 Armor spell on them making them nearly invincible! ie, Spirit Hosts, Bastiladon (can also ignore mortal wounds 50% of the time!)...) ... or just deploy extra Nagashes...

Requiring some sort of "minimum core" would stop combos like that (maybe just requiring at least 1 battalion to be taken would do the trick?). Also having a "there can be only one" rule for named characters wouldn't be a bad thing. Summoning isn't really that bad if some of the exploitative characters are dealt with (making it so that a summoned model can't summon (or cast anything at all?) on the turn it was summoned... they probably shouldn't be able to charge on the turn they were summoned either ... maybe just implement some sort of "summoning sickness" and say that they can't do *anything* until the next turn)

Not sure how exactly to handle the "massive amounts of Skink Chameleons" thing... maybe a cap on the number of duplicate units. Or a cap on the number of units with an ambush ability.

Those are some house-rules that should fix the "sudden death-summoning" armies without imposing too many army-building restrictions. If anything, they are nice "don't be a jerk" guidelines to follow regardless of the house rules used.

The other thing that needs addressing is the 1+ save and the Armor Save spell. Either the Armor Save spell shouldn't be able to stack, or 1's should automatically fail. It's really no fun to have all of your units engaged with 1+ armor saves by turn 2. Unless you have lots of ambush units that can pop in and take out the army of casters (and by then it'll probably be too late).

 

[pendrake]

Oxyotl, Nagash, Lord of Change

Maybe a simple must not mix the master keywords is an idea? ORDER, DEATH, CHAOS all in one force?

a "there can be only one" rule for named characters wouldn't be a bad thing

Concur.

the "massive amounts of Skink Chameleons" thing... maybe a cap on the number of duplicate units.

How about forcing the rest of the army to equal or exceed the number of Skink Chameleon units? And being totally fair: apply that to all units of all types. Example: Panzer Brigade of 12 steam tanks? needs 12 other Empire units -or- The Magnifiecent Seven Stegadons need to be accompanied by 7 or 8 other kinds of units.

or 1's should automatically fail.

They left out the old standard of 1 is always a fail? Srsly?? ... ...