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AoS Attacks vs Damage

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miturian

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Can someone explain to me what the difference is between a model with 6 attacks with damage 1, and one with 3 attacks with damage 2? I'm aware that the variation is going to be greater in the second case, but the average will be the same, if I understand it correctly? The rules seem pretty clear that a damage 3 attack can kill 3 1-wound models (which I think is daft, I liked the old rule better). So is there any difference at all? It seems to me like they could have just left one stat out.
 
miturian said:
Can someone explain to me what the difference is between a model with 6 attacks with damage 1, and one with 3 attacks with damage 2? I'm aware that the variation is going to be greater in the second case, but the average will be the same, if I understand it correctly? The rules seem pretty clear that a damage 3 attack can kill 3 1-wound models (which I think is daft, I liked the old rule better). So is there any difference at all? It seems to me like they could have just left one stat out.
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Depends largely on the model that's got them.
 
The difference comes from outside the model, saves are made before damage is applied so if you have damage 2 then you must cause at least 2 wounds, you also see the difference with to hit and to wound modifiers. But it is designed to appeal to individual playstyle more than anything else, are you someone who likes to roll a lot of dice, or someone who prefers his/her rolls to count for more on each dice?
 
miturian said:
Can someone explain to me what the difference is between a model with 6 attacks with damage 1, and one with 3 attacks with damage 2?
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I think that it's mostly a thematic thing to keep large models hitting hard with fewer swings, and small models scoring a whole lot of weedy blows. You also have to remember that range is a very important part of this.

Larger models - such as Ogres - are going to get fewer attacks in combat due to their massive size & very short range. Therefore, they need higher damage to hold their own. For example, one 12-attack Tyrant w/ re-rolls killed 20 of my Skinks in a single round of combat the other day. It was a lot more convincing than a Tyrant with 16, 20, 30 attacks.

Like you said, the game is still one of averages at the end of the day. I think that this new approach (damage & range) will lead to more interesting combat and, more importantly, can be expounded upon by future rules. A current example of this: with Ogres, their BSB has a bubble that causes their to-hit rolls of 6 to trigger additional mortal wounds on their enemy. You simply couldn't have a rule like that if their attacks were doubled (or tripled, in the case of Ironguts), because forcing that amount of mortal wounds every combat would be viciously overpowered.

As Protector stated, Hit & Wound modifiers are crucial here, and the Damage stat nicely enforces the old 'rock, paper & scissors' thing without having too many dice rolls.
 
Ixt said:
For example, one 12-attack Tyrant w/ re-rolls killed 20 of my Skinks in a single round of combat the other day. It was a lot more convincing than a Tyrant with 16, 20, 30 attacks.
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How did the tyrant get 12 attacks? He only gets re-rolls with a 2nd cleaver not more attacks. Did I miss an ogre ability that doubles attacks or lets you pile in twice?
 
One Club, Basher or Slicer confers 6 Attacks.

"A Tyrant is a single model. Some Tyrants
fight with a massive, double-handed
Ogre Club, while others prefer to wield
a Club, Basher or Slicer in each hand.
Some Tyrants instead fight with a single
Club, Basher or Slicer and carry a brace of
Ogre Pistols."

We've now got 12 attacks.

"Club ‘em then Club ‘em Again: All
Tyrants know that two clubs are better
than one. You can re-roll failed hit rolls for
a Tyrant armed with more than one Club,
Basher or Slicer."

Now we're re-rolling all 12. It doesn't say that only the second one can re-roll.

It gets significantly worse with the 'Brawlerguts' big name, or within range of the BSB's add-a-mortal-wound-for-a-6 thing.
 
I see your problem, you are adding rules instead of taking them as written. If you look through all the army warscrolls you will see some double weapon choices actually adding attacks, most of the time though they just allow rerolls of some sort.

the benefit is not extra attacks for the second weapon but rather rerolls. The idea is that he still only attacks 6 times but with two weapons he is more likely to connect with each attack.

you don't have to take my word for it but I guarantee that is how it is supposed to be played. And reading through other examples of double weapons confirms this.
 
Ahh interesting.
protector said:
And reading through other examples of double weapons confirms this.
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I believe you, but can you cite this? Not near my computer atm.
 
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