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8th Ed. At tournaments, what power builds will we face?

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Thatguyoverthere11

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I haven't attended very many fantasy tournaments, but when I build a list I try to come up with at least one unit/combo to deal with every situation. What are the power builds? We probably should have some sort of versus thread with a list of the most powerful army builds out there for new players to see what they're up against.
 
Power builds the lizardmen player will bring or power lists he will face?
 
Warriors of Chaos: Nurgle Daemon Prince with Death/Slaanesh Level 4 with Cacaphonic Choir, Chariots, Chimeras, Skullcrushers, Marauder Horsemen, 1+/3++ re-rolling 1s Exalted BSB on a Daemonic Mount, Throgg with Trolls.

Daemons of Chaos: Papa Nurgle, Plaguebearer Horde, 2x Skullcannons, Plague Drones, as many Beasts of Nurgle that can be fit into the list.

Dark Elves: Level 4 on Death, multiple Pegasus Masters, Witch Elf Horde with Cauldon, Dark Riders, Executioner horde with Bloodwrack Shrine, 5-15 Warlocks, multiple RBTs.

High Elves: Loremaster with Book of Hoeth, White Lion Horde with Banner of the World Dragon, Frost Phoenix, other inconsequential stuff.

Orcs and Goblins: Savage Orc horde with Shrunken Head, Trolls, multiple war machines (surprisingly good at countering Warriors of Chaos, and therefore quite popular).

Empire: Light Council, Halberdier horde, tons of Demigryphs, Steam Tank.

Vampire Counts: Multiple Terrorgheists.

Lizardmen: Slann with Death/Wandering Deliberations/Focus of Mystery, or Tetto. 2-5 Saurus characters (mix of Scar-Vets and Oldbloods), Skink cloud, Temple Guard horde (36+).

The above seems to be the most common lists that I see. Ogres and Skaven used to be right up there, but can they even be considered power builds anymore given the above? I'm not so sure.
 
ogres: a big ironguts unit with 3 nearly immortal heroes\lords on the front rank, standard which makes them untargettable by magic

Chaos Dwarfs (when they're allowed): 1-2 K'daai destroyers or hellcannons, death magic, chalice of blood and darkness, hobgoblin hordes or 30+ dwarfs (usually with hw+shield for 3+\6++ but sometimes GW or ranged attacks aswell), 1-2 magma cannons, 1-3 deathshriekers, 1-2 iron daemons
 
What is interesting to me is less the names of units in other army books, but rather talking about general types of "power builds" that might be seen. I think that yields better discussion than just naming nasty units in other armies (tho that has its place as well).

So I'll get the ball rolling here, with some initial thoughts.

Character Delivery Deathstars
Big unit that has extra protections (magic defenses, ranged defenses, etc.) with one (or more) characters sitting at the front. The idea is to get the big nasties into combat and use their quantity and strength of attacks to mow down enemy units. Chaos, Ogres, High Elves all come to mind with this trick, either by having fierce character nastiness or ways to get a single unit very defensive. But almost any army can run this trick. Goblin heroes with great weapons are 37 points each. Why not fill the front rank of a horde with four of them, and chop face?

Solution: To face this sort of foe, you want to have reliable and effective redirection units (or super-cheap "feed" units). Keep their points from destroying anything of value, and focus on taking out the rest of their force.

Magical Overload Mayhem
These sorts of tricks use combos of rules and characters to get the most out of a magic phase. It could be extra dice generation, echo-lore tricks (think Lore of Fire where it gets easier to cast), or special units that enhance a magic phase or bring heaps of bound spells to the table. The common thread is that they're trying to wiggle their way around the usual 2-4 spells (depending on the winds of magic roll) that most generalist armies can throw each phase to gain their competitive advantage.

Solution: This is usually my least worry when playing someone. Generally, let people get thru the little garbage and then stop any really big stuff (unit removal spells like Purple Sun or Pit of Shades). Hope that they miscast, that helps too. In large part magic is so fiddly in 8th edition that many armies try to make it more predictable by spending lots of points on that phase. Just recognize that almost all wizards go splat when you get to them in melee (Orcs, Warriors of Chaos, and Daemons Lord choices being the obvious exceptions). So get stuff into melee with their casters right away, and direct attacks at them. If they have supporting pieces to enhance the magic phase (like our Engine of the Gods or Vampire Corpse Carts) then take those out as well. Usually magic is a snowball--it's going to cascade in one direction or the other. Either they will keep blasting your units into nothing (or hexing them to uselessness) or you'll knock out some pieces of their magic strategy and then the whole force will be neutered. Make sure the snowball rolls their direction.

Do the Monster Mash
They're trying to win with really big, stompy, nasty things. Lizardmen are the masters of this tactic, but it doesn't mean they're alone. Almost any army with monstrous mounts plus monsters in special and/or rare can put out a list like this. They're banking on these big things hitting your ranks hard, and being too tough to kill/taking too many casualties--not to mention hoping for the elusive terror check failures.

Solution: Multiple wounds. Lizardmen don't have cannons, but they do have things that put multiple wounds on foes. Have enough multiple wounds options to cover both sides of the board. That said, poison is also an enormous help here--lizardmen have less to fear about this tactic than other sorts of forces.

That One Special Something
The list has some component that messes up your day. Usually a magic item in an older book, but sometimes a key model with a certain rule (the Banshee comes to mind). The power build is designed to utilize that one component to allow the rest of the force to head to victory.

Solution: Punch it or ignore it. Either focus on ways to snipe characters (certain spell lores, fire-and-forget units like ripperdactyls, etc.), or don't play their game. If they're counting on you to get close to the Hellheart (Ogre Kingdoms), just don't get that close. Stay in your deployment zone for a turn, or do the classic "refused flank" to make the player regret their Casket of Souls (Tomb Kings). If they've built their army around the tech, then avoid the trigger--if nothing else shaking the tactics up gives you a stronger chance at victory because they'll be coping with the unexpected.

I'm thinking of some other ones, but still forming my words (because it's the end of the day). I'll update if I can express more. But I'd love to hear others' input on more general types of power builds rather than specifics.

Cheers,

Andrew
 
GCPD said:
Warriors of Chaos: Nurgle Daemon Prince with Death/Slaanesh Level 4 with Cacaphonic Choir, Chariots, Chimeras, Skullcrushers, Marauder Horsemen, 1+/3++ re-rolling 1s Exalted BSB on a Daemonic Mount, Throgg with Trolls.

Daemons of Chaos: Papa Nurgle, Plaguebearer Horde, 2x Skullcannons, Plague Drones, as many Beasts of Nurgle that can be fit into the list.

Dark Elves: Level 4 on Death, multiple Pegasus Masters, Witch Elf Horde with Cauldon, Dark Riders, Executioner horde with Bloodwrack Shrine, 5-15 Warlocks, multiple RBTs.

High Elves: Loremaster with Book of Hoeth, White Lion Horde with Banner of the World Dragon, Frost Phoenix, other inconsequential stuff.

Orcs and Goblins: Savage Orc horde with Shrunken Head, Trolls, multiple war machines (surprisingly good at countering Warriors of Chaos, and therefore quite popular).

Empire: Light Council, Halberdier horde, tons of Demigryphs, Steam Tank.

Vampire Counts: Multiple Terrorgheists.

Lizardmen: Slann with Death/Wandering Deliberations/Focus of Mystery, or Tetto. 2-5 Saurus characters (mix of Scar-Vets and Oldbloods), Skink cloud, Temple Guard horde (36+).

The above seems to be the most common lists that I see. Ogres and Skaven used to be right up there, but can they even be considered power builds anymore given the above? I'm not so sure.
Click to expand...

How does the halberdier horde work? 50 halbards + warrior priest and buff wagon in the back?
 
For High Elves (my main army):

Dragon Prince Deathstar (Combat Prince, Noble BSB, Archmage with High Magic and Book of Hoeth, Banner of the World Dragon in a block of Dragon Princes).

Star Dragon Prince with Support.

3++ Phoenix Guard with Razor Banner and optional characters. Can have trouble getting active combat res without characters, but is very hard to kill without test or die spells or the OTS.

Note; the following aren't possible under most comp:

3-4 Frost Phoenixes (2 in rare, 1-2 in Lords and Heroes).

Light Council with Everqueen, Banner of +4 to cast Friendly Light/Life Spells on BSB and Banner of the World Dragon in a White Lion Horde. Alternatively, Teclis + 2-3 Light Level 2s for Double S6-7 Banishment.
 
Some good basics above, jsut to add some detail and fill it out:

Ogres: Irongut deathstar with Slaughtermaster and bruisers and with two Ironblasters and mournfang cav. Often see leadbelchers, sometimes gnobler trappers and large cheap gnoblar tarpits.

HE and DE: with all the high armour save warriors of chaos stuff and heavy cav out there, we are seeing armies with 3 or 4 reaper bolt throwers and those can really cut down expensive infantry like Temple Guard with multiple shots.

DE: Lots of warlocks instead of lvl 2's if not comped. More dark rider core (cheaper, better armour save with fast cav). We are seeing more of a shift to characters on dark steeds (for fast cav and vanguard benefits) and cold ones (for ITP and attacks and high armour save with great weapon) instead of on pegs. They can run in or close to dark rider or warlock buses. With casters, in a warlock bus, they can vanguard out and get on a flank. The other build is witch elf horde with cauldron with razor banner and with crone hellb. special character if allowed. Lots of executioners, one very large block or two 25 to 30 model blocks.

Empire: hellblaster volley guns and cannons with an engineer on the volley gun if it is in range and on the cannon if not. Other than the halberdier horde backed by archlector on war alter with some light wizards and/or one or two of the fancy uber chariots, we also see a cav focused army with mounted war priests, demigryphs, and one or 2 stanks.

Daemons: basically skullcannons and beasts are often maxed out unless comped with 2 cannon chariots and 3 units of beasts. Plague bearer core. Soul grinder is also a common choice. We see some Epidemus lists when allowed. If allowed, Belakor is quite nasty (lvl 4 shadow loremaster); Kairos popular if allowed as well; otherwise some greater daemon of GUO, Lord of Change, or Keeper is common. We see bloodletters on juggs some still. There are a number of focused builds, Nurgle being most successful with plague drones, GUO, plague bearers and beasts of nurgle, but I also have seen slaanesh do well and even some tazeentch builds (screamers under-rated).

Vampires: blender vanpire lord of some kind with a ghoul horde and lots of banshees and wraiths as chaff and scream at stuff with a terrogheist or two and a lvl 4 death necromancer can be reeally tough.
 
Pinktaco said:
GCPD said:
Warriors of Chaos: Nurgle Daemon Prince with Death/Slaanesh Level 4 with Cacaphonic Choir, Chariots, Chimeras, Skullcrushers, Marauder Horsemen, 1+/3++ re-rolling 1s Exalted BSB on a Daemonic Mount, Throgg with Trolls.

Daemons of Chaos: Papa Nurgle, Plaguebearer Horde, 2x Skullcannons, Plague Drones, as many Beasts of Nurgle that can be fit into the list.

Dark Elves: Level 4 on Death, multiple Pegasus Masters, Witch Elf Horde with Cauldon, Dark Riders, Executioner horde with Bloodwrack Shrine, 5-15 Warlocks, multiple RBTs.

High Elves: Loremaster with Book of Hoeth, White Lion Horde with Banner of the World Dragon, Frost Phoenix, other inconsequential stuff.

Orcs and Goblins: Savage Orc horde with Shrunken Head, Trolls, multiple war machines (surprisingly good at countering Warriors of Chaos, and therefore quite popular).

Empire: Light Council, Halberdier horde, tons of Demigryphs, Steam Tank.

Vampire Counts: Multiple Terrorgheists.

Lizardmen: Slann with Death/Wandering Deliberations/Focus of Mystery, or Tetto. 2-5 Saurus characters (mix of Scar-Vets and Oldbloods), Skink cloud, Temple Guard horde (36+).

The above seems to be the most common lists that I see. Ogres and Skaven used to be right up there, but can they even be considered power builds anymore given the above? I'm not so sure.
Click to expand...

How does the halberdier horde work? 50 halbards + warrior priest and buff wagon in the back?
Click to expand...

Yup! Backed up with 4-8 Demi's, Stank and light council
 
Do the multiple shots from he bolt throwers ignore armour?
 
Nope. Six S4 armor piercing shots, so -2 to armor save.
 
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