7th Ed. Are cold one cavalry too expensive??

[johno]

Hi all

hope everyone is ok

just a couple a quick questions....but i would like loads of answers and opinions please

getting back into warhammer after a few years break, im looking at the Cold one cavalry and thinking of their good benfits and special rules BUT are they really worth 35 points each?? maybe for a bigger army, but how about in a 2000 point army list?? expecially if you include a full command?!? because im sure enemy generals would just pick them off straight away because of the threat they cause

ALSO for 55 points you can have a cold one rider champion....now to me thats alot of points for an extra 1 attack, i know the opportunity to offer challenges with this model is good, but still 55 points is alot

and one more thing, everyone who is reading this im sure has used Cold ones before, do they fail their stupidity test often??

thankyou and whats everyones views??

 

[Thebestlazyguy]

I havent really played cold ones enough to really give you a good opinion, so dont trust just me. But personally my observations of cold ones has given me the impression that yes, they fail their stupidity tests too often to be of any use. Despite this, it may be useful to have them, as they could be good for flanking in larger games. again, i dont really have much experience, but this is my general opinion of them. hope it helped

 

[Quillum]

I've been fielding a unit of 5 Cold One Riders, and of the 8 games I have played so far, they've failed the test once, maybe twice. Cold blooded leadership of 8 is not something that is failed on a consistent basis...unless the dice gods hate you that is.

 

[Barotok]

I love my cold one riders. In smaller games I typically field them without command. In larger games I'll beef them out with an extra rider or command. Their popularity seems like it is lower on these forums, but there are people that still use them. I'd say that for their price they do well, but are on the expensive side. I've not had the trouble with stupidity that some have had. They do fail their tests from time to time, but overall they're quite uesfull.

 

[strewart]

In short, they are worth their points but they are very expensive and you will want to make sure you get the most out of them if you take them.

There are two basic ways of using them. The first is as a support unit, buy 5 models with no command and use them as a flanking force. They can move up the flank, clear out enemy flankers, and support your army by moving back toward the centre when you get close. Still expensive but very effective, and you only need 3 left to negate ranks, while 2 left will still deal heavy damage to anything you face.

The second way is to go all out with a hard hitting centre unit. You want a frontage of 6 to provide maximum kills to opponents, any you take above that sit in the back rank and absorb shooting as well as provide extra numbers. Full command is recommended for them to get maximum kills and combat res, there is also the possibility of a magic banner like the war banner or haunchi's totem, and some people inclode a scar-vet in the unit for even more killing power. You want to get this unit to charge as soon as possible into the opponents biggest unit that it can handle to get your points back and be exposed to shooting for as little as possible.

You will find that sometimes they die really easily and let you down, other times they walk right through enemy units, and sometimes they attract a LOT of fire and allow the rest of your army to get through unscathed. Sure they will fail the odd stupidity test as well and let you down, someone did that stats on it in another thread I think the chance of passing was 80% or so? They will stay good most of the time.

If you find yourself with one or two models, send them after warmachines or even suicide them into a unit with a mage in it and focus all attacks on the mage to assassinate him. And never forget that they cause fear.

 

[Dumbledore]

chance of passing is 89% actually ^^ cold blooded is sweet

 

[Barotok]

cold blooded is sweet

And terribly irritating to calculate as compared to other probabilities, I might add.

 

[Dumbledore]

You can figure it ok with lots of factorials (ie permutations and combinations) but I did it a funner way by converting it into a question of three dimensional geometry, using symmetries etc to simplify things (ie each dice was a dimension or axis). Each solves it in the same way really (as does just writing out all 216 possible results) but each different notation simplifies or makes more complex the work you have to do to figure it out (the easiest should be using factorials or geometry, the hardest writing out all the combinations unless you happen to be exceedingly methodical). Of course the best way is to figure out what % it fails, rather than succeeds as you have to deal with a lot lot less ^^

Ah, back to warhammer discussion...

 

[hellbreaker]

You can figure it ok with lots of factorials (ie permutations and combinations) but I did it a funner way by converting it into a question of three dimensional geometry, using symmetries etc to simplify things (ie each dice was a dimension or axis). Each solves it in the same way really (as does just writing out all 216 possible results) but each different notation simplifies or makes more complex the work you have to do to figure it out (the easiest should be using factorials or geometry, the hardest writing out all the combinations unless you happen to be exceedingly methodical). Of course the best way is to figure out what % it fails, rather than succeeds as you have to deal with a lot lot less ^^

Ah, back to warhammer discussion...

Summing that up.

Geometry yada yada yada... Something like that...

I would say that you calculate the percentage of rolling 3 dice then divide by 16,7 then subtract that sum with 100... Thus getting the percentage...

Obviously I have no idea of what I'm talking about thou, but I think it sounds simple and could work...

Regarding cold ones I think I'm one of the few people who wants a cold one army...
No kroq-gar, he's just 'tarded... I want my cold ones, 2 units and that's enough... Not more, cause they sure are a killer in terms of points and budget...

Power to the cold ones!

Cheers!

 

[Dumbledore]

Hahaha you joker, that would be massively wrong by the way...

To build up my army to 2k I'm going to buy a second battalion box, which means i can (and DEFINITELY will once or twice) run 3 COR units, one of 5, one of 5+scar vet or oldblood and one of 6. Might run it with a few skinks and an eotg and solo slann if possible, maybe with a refused flank. It could go soooo wrong with stupidity...

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Never-ever play a game without cold ones, they are a hammer unit that will crush anything they hit in cc on the charge.....

just dont let this happen

 

[Grifthin]

I field a cold one unit every game - Favourite unit:

8 Cold one Riders with full command + Scarvet with Blade of Might + Banner of the sun (-1 to shooting, -2 at 12").

Frontage of 6. Hit whatever you want to kill head on. Roll over the, repeat down enemy line.

Gods I love Cavalry.

 

[Axolotl]

COR can be very effective, depending on the enemy. Do not take them against armies with lots of blackpowder weapons or crossbows, because they are so point intensive (and relatively easy to kill for those weapons) that they will not survive for long. But for general army lists i definitely would recommend them. especially since the new armybook and their improved armour saves.

 

[Gannon]

I use Cold One Cav in every game I play with lizzies. Usually 5CoR FC with Huanchi banner and a scar-vet with ench shield and Sword of Might for the extra killing power, sometimes I might change it to burning blade to kill Hydra's or Vargulfs.

Huanchi banner makes sure they get the charge against everything I want them to charge.

Either it are enemy cav or a monster or something else I don't want my saurus to face.

They are our new Anvil unit together with a stegadon they take in the place of our old Kroxigors from 6th.

A full CoR army could work. I've once fielded an army that needed 4 Stupidity tests a turn. I think I failed it once, at turn 1 wich wasn't bad at all. And once you get in combat, stupidity disapears.

If you wonder how I ended up with 4 stupidity tests a turn. My list was like this.

So in my honest oppinion they are so worth it. 2 Att each, 2+ armor save, cause fear, S4 in second round.. Not much out there that can take these guys on, except Blood Knights or Chaos Knights which are as I remember much more expensive.

A unit of 5 CoR FC with Huanci are around 250 pts...

Oldblood with Hide of the cold ones
Great weapon, Venom of the firefly frog and glyph Necklace in a unit of 19 Tg with warbanner
I'm not sure but i think the Champ had a Dispell Scroll
(was that legal? can a champ take a DS ?)

15 saurus with a scar-vet on cold one with them

15 saurus with a scar-vet on cold one with them

3 units of skinks skirmishers to screen.

lvl 1 priest EoTG Diadem and Dispell Scroll

and a unit of 5 CoR FC with huanchi banner

I think I had some spare points for a sally and a unit of terries

All my saurus were Immune to fear and caused fear
(not to autobreak but maybe stop charges or enemy hits on 6's)

As I said I failed Supidity with my lord 1 time on turn one which wasn't bad at all.
He stopped the charge of a Star Dragon and killed the stardragon in 2 Combat turns.
While the EoTG and TG killed the lord on top.

 

[strewart]

I'm not sure but i think the Champ had a Dispell Scroll
(was that legal? can a champ take a DS ?)

Nope. A dispel scroll is an arcane item and only wizards can take arcane items, so the unit champ couldn't have it.

 

[snowywlf]

He stopped the charge of a Star Dragon and killed the stardragon in 2 Combat turns.
While the EoTG and TG killed the lord on top.

*drool* That's poetry right there. I bet the Helf player wasnt very happy. And very interesting list. I really enjoy the variety that Lizardmen can put out, and this list is a prime example of it.

 

[snowywlf]

im looking at the Cold one cavalry and thinking of their good benfits and special rules BUT are they really worth 35 points each?? maybe for a bigger army, but how about in a 2000 point army list?? expecially if you include a full command?!? because im sure enemy generals would just pick them off straight away because of the threat they cause

ALSO for 55 points you can have a cold one rider champion....now to me thats alot of points for an extra 1 attack, i know the opportunity to offer challenges with this model is good, but still 55 points is alot

and one more thing, everyone who is reading this im sure has used Cold ones before, do they fail their stupidity test often??

thankyou and whats everyones views??

I was actually doing all the math on the Cold One Riders yesterday as I was putting together a 2000 pt list. Yes, they are expensive little beasts. Yes, they are massive threats. If you are worried about them getting shot up before reaching combat, please enter our delightful Skink Skirmishers to play the role of cannon fodder... rrr, I mean, screens. My role for them is to obliterate anything and everything support. They are going to plow from one end of the enemies line to the other. If they have to take on a beefy unit, they will be able to survive and keep going.

Anyway, onto the math.

For my list I was looking at 5 Cold One Riders with full command. 225 points.

On charge they have (this is before retaliation of course):
11 Strength 5 from Riders
5 Strength 4 from Cold Ones

I added a Scar Vet on Cold One with the Scimitar of Sun Resplendent for (163 points):
6 Strength 5 from Scar Vet
1 Strength 4 from Cold One

Bringing my total on a charge to:
17 Strength 5
6 Strength 4

23 Total attacks

Ok, so how many wounds are we looking at?



This unit is basically a HULK SMASH unit. I'm fighting a Nurgle heavy demon army, so I'll have Movement control and my Slann is going Fire to wipe out their Priority #1 targets (Regeneration units). This Cold One Rider unit is going to take out anything Priority #2 and I built a few support pieces around it. The full command is due to the Instability rule of demons. For every point they lose Combat Resolution by, they take an extra wound.

I designed this unit for a very specific purpose. You may not want to invest as much into your Cold One Riders as I have. A set of 5 Cold One Riders will net you 175 points with no command. If you are really interested in seeing the numbers for 4 Cold One Riders with no upgrades, I can do that very easily as well.

(I do love my charts )

Edit: Bah! I meant to include the chance of Stupidity. With Cold Blooded it is 89.4% success rate or a fail rate of 10.6%. So each test you take you have basically a 10-11% chance of being Stupid. Remember that this only applies when they are not in combat.

 

[stumpyfjord]

I am currently trying to get used to/perfect a list with SCOR in it and I have a couple of questions about SCOR use.

*Do they require a character? This question is probably coupled with the next one.
*What are their targets? I guess this depends a lot on how they are fielded. i.e. w/ character, w/FC, w/ Warbanner

 

[Caneghem]

I am currently trying to get used to/perfect a list with SCOR in it and I have a couple of questions about SCOR use.

*Do they require a character? This question is probably coupled with the next one.
*What are their targets? I guess this depends a lot on how they are fielded. i.e. w/ character, w/FC, w/ Warbanner

Character not required, but some people like to throw in a Scar-Vet to just put the damage output over the top. If you field them this way, then you can target pretty much anything you want... Others might choose to field a minimal unit of 5 just for flankers, although they aren't exactly cheap so few people go this route.