AoS Are Allies worth it?

[Putzfrau]

seriously.. that's only 340 points? that's stupidly cheap..

Ya, 100 each for the ballista and the comet, 140 for the incantor or 180 for a lord arcanum.

Dunno yet if adding the wizard and the comet are worth it over just more ballista with a lord ordinator

Edit: I was wrong! 440 or (480) points, not 340.

 

[Canas]

Ya, 100 each for the ballista and the comet, 140 for the incantor or 180 for a lord arcanum.

Dunno yet if adding the wizard and the comet are worth it over just more ballista with a lord ordinator

That'd be 440 if I count correctly (or 480)

 

[Putzfrau]

That'd be 440 if I count correctly (or 480)

Yes, you're absolutely right dunno how I messed that up. Do endless spells count towards ally limits?

Was just going off the number it gave me in Azyr, but it doesnt look like it added the comet to the ally point total.

 

[Aginor]

Endless spells don't count as allies.

 

[Canas]

Endless spells don't count as allies.

mm, then it'd be 340 which would be legal. Though kinda weird that faction specific endless spells don't count as allies.

 

[Aginor]

mm, then it'd be 340 which would be legal. Though kinda weird that faction specific endless spells don't count as allies.

They are not units, that's why. The ally pool is for units.

As for them being different to other Endless Spells:
Concerning the rules, "faction specific" only means that they have the limitation "only a xyz wizard can attempt to cast this spell". They don't have special keywords or so, only their names, a Realm, and Endless Spell.

So you could theoretically include them in any army, you just wouldn't be able to attempt to cast them.

 

[Canas]

Still feels inconsistent and weird… To be honest I would almost say you should only be allowed to use them in an army with that specific allegiance. Seems like a good way to stop abuse of specific endless spells should some pop up that just have briljant synergy with another army or are just so stupidly overpowered that everyone in the grand Alliance wants them regardless of how they play. Plus, I'd just like it thematicly.

 

[Putzfrau]

Still feels inconsistent and weird… To be honest I would almost say you should only be allowed to use them in an army with that specific allegiance. Seems like a good way to stop abuse of specific endless spells should some pop up that just have briljant synergy with another army or are just so stupidly overpowered that everyone in the grand Alliance wants them regardless of how they play. Plus, I'd just like it thematicly.

Everblaze comets will be absolutely everywhere

 

[Taipan]

We're in a pretty good position I feel, because Seraphon don't need Allies to function. Ballistas are at least 20 points undercosted, but I think Salamanders still outperform them (especially in TQ). Incantor and Comet are definitely strong contenders, it's a shame we only have SCE as Allies because personally I find them boring. I don't think we need Allies for MW output necessarily, stuff like Pendulum or Gemnids offers that already. Comet is really good though, especially because if they don't stop it, it will force the enemy to move.

I would probably build a list first, then decide what areas you're lacking in. Keep in mind that SCE stuff generally functions a lot better when you bring a specific character along with it (Ordinator+Ballistas for example), so that 400pts at 2k will disappear fast. In smaller games I wouldn't bother with Allies at all, at 2500 you'll have the points for a Drakesworn Templar (just fits in), but with the recent nerfs I don't know if it's better than a Dread Saurian (because just like with Sallies, the Saurian is cheaper and benefits from every buff Seraphon can give it). Saurian also looks cooler

 

[Putzfrau]

We're in a pretty good position I feel, because Seraphon don't need Allies to function. Ballistas are at least 20 points undercosted, but I think Salamanders still outperform them (especially in TQ).

Totally agree on all fronts, I will say the nice thing about ballistas is the range. 36" -2 rend is something Seraphon don't have in their army, but you have to make some hard choices about the Ordinator. Dunno if the +1 to hit on 2 ballistas is worth it over an incantor or just more seraphon stuff.

Regardless, Seraphon certainly don't need allies in any sense of the word.

 

[LizardWizard]

I think Liberators are worth a consideration. Point for power they are very solid battleline. Grandhammer's on a Liberator Prime produce desirable results, Lay Low the Tyrant lets them punch above their weight class, and you are getting a very durable 10 wounds for 100 points. The only downside is that they don't synergize with your army and they are slow.

Like others have said, Celestar Ballista is amazing. You could easily bring two ballista and a Lord-Ordinator for ranged fire support; or even just four ballista out right. There are not many units in AoS that can compete with the wound potential from such range for only 100 points.

Knight-Incators are also worth bringing. Their Voidstorm Scroll lets you shut down armies that rely on getting off specific spells. These guys are shockingly fighty for a wizard on foot. Which is great because you want your Knight-Incantor in the thick of things to have range for the auto unbind and to be able to crack your flask at the right moment. Their mortal wound output is nothing to scoff at either.

 

[Canas]

I think Liberators are worth a consideration. Point for power they are very solid battleline. Grandhammer's on a Liberator Prime produce desirable results, Lay Low the Tyrant lets them punch above their weight class, and you are getting a very durable 10 wounds for 100 points. The only downside is that they don't synergize with your army and they are slow.

Like others have said, Celestar Ballista is amazing. You could easily bring two ballista and a Lord-Ordinator for ranged fire support; or even just four ballista out right. There are not many units in AoS that can compete with the wound potential from such range for only 100 points.

Knight-Incators are also worth bringing. Their Voidstorm Scroll lets you shut down armies that rely on getting off specific spells. These guys are shockingly fighty for a wizard on foot. Which is great because you want your Knight-Incantor in the thick of things to have range for the auto unbind and to be able to crack your flask at the right moment. Their mortal wound output is nothing to scoff at either.

mwha, liberators are decent, but they don't do anything we don't already have acces to. Unless you desperatly want to avoid fielding saurus for some reason I don't think they add much, especially considering they'l have 0 synergy.

 

[LizardWizard]

mwha, liberators are decent, but they don't do anything we don't already have acces to. Unless you desperatly want to avoid fielding saurus for some reason I don't think they add much, especially considering they'l have 0 synergy.

Liberators add a more durable unit and their damage output in minimum sized units is higher than Saurus. They are really only useful if you want a solid wall or objective holder. Their lack of synergy was also mentioned. Seraphon do not actually need to bring any allies. We have all the tools necessary to win on our own. It is still a unit worth consideration though. Seeing as Seraphon does lack durable multi-wound unit.

That being said. When playing smaller games, like 1000 points, it is worth adding Liberators. Sarurs Warriors are notoriously iffy below 30 count units. So if you want to bring more support heroes of some Bastilladons being able to pick something stronger than skinks, hardier than Saurus warrior, and only cost 200 points for both battleline is quite effective.

 

[Canas]

Liberators add a more durable unit and their damage output in minimum sized units is higher than Saurus. They are really only useful if you want a solid wall or objective holder. Their lack of synergy was also mentioned. Seraphon do not actually need to bring any allies. We have all the tools necessary to win on our own. It is still a unit worth consideration though. Seeing as Seraphon does lack durable multi-wound unit.

That being said. When playing smaller games, like 1000 points, it is worth adding Liberators. Sarurs Warriors are notoriously iffy below 30 count units. So if you want to bring more support heroes of some Bastilladons being able to pick something stronger than skinks, hardier than Saurus warrior, and only cost 200 points for both battleline is quite effective.

In bigger point games you should already have something that can fullfill the role of objective holder/wall, but yea I guess in smaller point games where the lack of points restricts you far more taking a unit of liberators might be more worthwhile.