AoS Ardfist battalion(new battletome)

[Imrahil]

Hi All,

I am not sure if this tread is in the correct part of the forum, but could not quite find a better subforum.

As I got the new Orruk Warclans Battletome I was going over the battalion that I liked the most in the old Battletome: Ardfist. And I noticed some changes.
I'd like to know if I am reading it all right.

The old Ironjawz Battletome stated the following:

As it clearly says: "During the Hero phase" and "The replacement unit is identical to the unit that was destroyed."
Also bear in mind that the minimum unit size of Orruk Ardboyz is 10 models.

The new Battletome says:


(1) "You can use this command ability..." so this is still in the hero phase, am I right?
(2) If you succeed the roll you can set up an unit of 10 models. regardless the size of the old unit(?)
Also the minimum unit size is changed to 5 models(although to count as Battleline it still needs 10 models)

(3) SO... If I for instance would use 3-5 units of 5 Ardboyz alongside a Warchanter and 3 units of Gore-gruntas (Battleline in an Ironjawz army) I would be oke Battleline wise.
Now when a unit of 5 Ardboyz is destroyed I might probably replace it by a unit of 10 Ardboyz for free?

(4) As it now also states "is added to this battalion"... When that unit is destroyed I can try to replace it again?

(5) Finally: If one unit is destroyed, say in turn, and in turn 2 I try to replace it but fail. Can I still try to replace it in the upcoming turns? Or would it be 1 try for every unit?

A lot of questions
Hopefully some of you might be able to help and clarify

Gr, Imrahil

PS: I don't know if I am breaking any forum-rules by posting a piece of the new Battletome? Please let me know if I did.

 

[LizardWizard]

You use the command ability when the unit is destroyed. So during whichever phase the unit is destroyed in. However, there is no cap on the number of times the command ability can be used in the current rules. So if one unit dies and you have 8 cp you can spend all 8 on attempts to bring in Ardboyz. Imagine this with Aetherquartz Brooch!

As it now also states "is added to this battalion"... When that unit is destroyed I can try to replace it again?

You are correct. Any newly added Ardboyz are part of the battalion and their destruction can be used to activate the command ability provide all other criteria is met.

 

[Aginor]

(1) "You can use this command ability..." so this is still in the hero phase, am I right?

No, I don't think so. Any time, right after a unit gets destroyed.

(2) If you succeed the roll you can set up an unit of 10 models. regardless the size of the old unit(?)
Also the minimum unit size is changed to 5 models(although to count as Battleline it still needs 10 models)

Yes, regardless. Replacements are always 10 Ardboyz.

Btw: the way I read it a unit of five is still Battleline if you play Ironjawz allegiance. Only in a Big Waagh army you need 10 boys units to be Battleline.

(3) SO... If I for instance would use 3-5 units of 5 Ardboyz alongside a Warchanter and 3 units of Gore-gruntas (Battleline in an Ironjawz army) I would be oke Battleline wise.
Now when a unit of 5 Ardboyz is destroyed I might probably replace it by a unit of 10 Ardboyz for free?

Yes.

(4) As it now also states "is added to this battalion"... When that unit is destroyed I can try to replace it again?

Yes.

(5) Finally: If one unit is destroyed, say in turn, and in turn 2 I try to replace it but fail. Can I still try to replace it in the upcoming turns? Or would it be 1 try for every unit?

You can try again.
In fact I'd argue that you can try again in one round, if you have enough command points to do so.

 

[Imrahil]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Btw: the way I read it a unit of five is still Battleline if you play Ironjawz allegiance. Only in a Big Waagh army you need 10 boys units to be Battleline.

I am not so sure about that... it says " Battleline in Ironjawz or Big Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or more models" otherwise it would have to be "Battleline in Ironjawz army and Big Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or more models"

However, there is no cap on the number of times the command ability can be used in the current rules. So if one unit dies and you have 8 cp you can spend all 8 on attempts to bring in Ardboyz.

If I am correct: command points are as follows. Before battle 1 to start +1 for each battalion in your army. Then each turn you gain 1.

Imagine this with Aetherquartz Brooch!

That looks like a great deal of fun xD

Gr, Imrahil

 

[Aginor]

I am not so sure about that... it says " Battleline in Ironjawz or Big Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or more models" otherwise it would have to be "Battleline in Ironjawz army and Bid Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or more models"

Warscroll builder seems to agree with my interpretation but you could still be right.

My buddy already has the German edition of the Orruk book IIRC, I'll ask him if the wording is more clear there.

 

[Killer Angel]

(5) Finally: If one unit is destroyed, say in turn, and in turn 2 I try to replace it but fail. Can I still try to replace it in the upcoming turns? Or would it be 1 try for every unit?

No, you can't.
You can use the ability "when the unit is destroyed", so you must use it in that precise moment.
If you have more than 1 cp you can try again for that unit, but that must be done immediately, you cannot wait for the next turn.

 

[Aginor]

No, you can't.
You can use the ability "when the unit is destroyed", so you must use it in that precise moment.
If you have more than 1 cp you can try again for that unit, but that must be done immediately, you cannot wait for the next turn.

Oh, yeah you are right, I misread that part of the question. He can try again, but he has to do so immediately, not in a subsequent turn.

 

[ILKAIN]

looks like you would be limited to having 5 units total in the battalion, so using multiple CP to bring back more than one unit of 10 would still be limited to a max of 5 units because of the battalion cap. as said above under the new rules there is no inherent limitation to using this command ability multiple times so long as its done when the ability triggers, and you don't move from that point forward (ie make a move, attack with another unit, etc)

 

[LizardWizard]

looks like you would be limited to having 5 units total in the battalion, so using multiple CP to bring back more than one unit of 10 would still be limited to a max of 5 units because of the battalion cap. as said above under the new rules there is no inherent limitation to using this command ability multiple times so long as its done when the ability triggers, and you don't move from that point forward (ie make a move, attack with another unit, etc)

Battalion Cap only exist when building the list. There is no cap to amount of key-wording that can be imparted.

Similar to how you are only allowed 4 artillery, 4 behemoths, & 6 heroes. However, you can still summoning more of those unit while your starting units are at cap on the field.

 

[ILKAIN]

Battalion Cap only exist when building the list. There is no cap to amount of key-wording that can be imparted.

Similar to how you are only allowed 4 artillery, 4 behemoths, & 6 heroes. However, you can still summoning more of those unit while your starting units are at cap on the field.

so effectively you could be THAT GUY... build 5 units of 5, and when 1 dies burn all your cp for 50% chance on return for 10 model units IN THE BATTALION.... 50% chance at twice the models, average even replacement per CP.... theres literally no downside to that. and with AQ brooch.....THAT GUY STRIKES AGAIN lol

 

[ILKAIN]

Battalion Cap only exist when building the list. There is no cap to amount of key-wording that can be imparted.

Similar to how you are only allowed 4 artillery, 4 behemoths, & 6 heroes. However, you can still summoning more of those unit while your starting units are at cap on the field.

also not that I don't believe you, I totally do, but do you have that in a rule/FAQ/errata somewhere? cuz that's gonna get resistance even not being that guy... say only doing it twice to return 2 units of 10 when you lose a unit of 5.

 

[LizardWizard]

also not that I don't believe you, I totally do, but do you have that in a rule/FAQ/errata somewhere? cuz that's gonna get resistance even not being that guy... say only doing it twice to return 2 units of 10 when you lose a unit of 5.

Just ask them where it says the unit caps are used for any purpose other than list building

And the above summon examples that already break unit limitations.

I expect this to get a FAQ and/or Errata change.

 

[Aginor]

Yeah they will probably limit it to restore one unit per destroyed unit.

 

[ILKAIN]

Just ask them where it says the unit caps are used for any purpose other than list building

And the above summon examples that already break unit limitations.

I expect this to get a FAQ and/or Errata change.

Yeah I would too

 

[ILKAIN]

Yeah they will probably limit it to restore one unit per destroyed unit.

or one try... SCE has something similar with the hammers and they only get one try on a 5+

 

[Imrahil]

so effectively you could be THAT GUY... build 5 units of 5, and when 1 dies burn all your cp for 50% chance on return for 10 model units IN THE BATTALION.... 50% chance at twice the models, average even replacement per CP.... theres literally no downside to that. and with AQ brooch.....THAT GUY STRIKES AGAIN lol

I would be that guy

Gr, Imrahil

 

[Imrahil]

My buddy already has the German edition of the Orruk book IIRC, I'll ask him if the wording is more clear there.

Do you already know what the German interpretation is of the unit size?

Gr, Imrahil

 

[Aginor]

Do you already know what the German interpretation is of the unit size?

Gr, Imrahil

Not yet unfortunately.
Contrary to what I believed my buddy hasn't received his mail ordered copy of it yet.

 

[Imrahil]

Patience is key

Gr, Imrahil

 

[Imrahil]

Still waiting though

In the meantime I'm trying to find the last Errata, but am failing to do so.
There was something in there about the Ironjawz units IIRC.

At the moment I'm building my Ardboyz and wonder if I should go for 1 unit of 10 or 2 units of 5(meaning 2 Ardboy bosses, 2 drummers, 2 standard bearers)
I decided to make the banner and Icon of Gork interchangeable so even in a unit of 10 I might have both standard bearers.

Gr, Imrahil