AoS Analyzing the Sunclaw Starhost

[Ixt]

I love Saurus Warriors. I can't get enough!

So I've been tinkering around with the Sunclaw Starhost. I have some ideas and some preferences, but I'd like to hear other folks' thoughts about the battalion itself.

*** How many points would a battle have to be in order for you to include the Sunclaw Starhost? Why?

*** Which Realm of Origin do you choose for the Sunclaw Starhost? Which Realm of Origin is your 'runner-up?'

*** What role do you fill with this battalion/its units (support, damage, objectives)?

*** How large do you make your units of Saurus? For people who max out at 40: are you usually able to get all 40 into combat? For peoplw who run 10, 20, or 30, how well does that work for you/are those sizes survivable?

*** Clubs or Spears? If you run spears -- in which situations would you run clubs? If you run clubs -- in which situations would you run spears?

*** How do you like the Sunblood? Do you ever make the Sunblood into your general?

*** Do you equip your Sunblood with an artefact from the realm? If so, which artefact? Which Seraphon artefacts work best for the Sunblood?

*** If you run models/units to support the Sunclaw Starhost, which do you use? Why?

*** Any tips/tricks you'd recommend for this battalion?

Looking forward to hearing from y'all.

 

[LizardWizard]

Here is how I run Sunclaw Starhost, more specifically Fangs of Sotek.

 

[LizardWizard]

How many points would a battle have to be in order for you to include the Sunclaw Starhost? Why?

Around 1500, but most likely I wouldn't run it under 2k. I prefer to run Sunclaw as FoS. Sunclaw can be run with 1500 points, but you want to have about two blocks of maxed Saurus Warriors and a ScV on Carno.

Which Realm of Origin do you choose for the Sunclaw Starhost? Which Realm of Origin is your 'runner-up?'

Ulgu is my go to realm when I get more than 1 artifact. There are other strong realms though. Aqshy, Shyish, and Ghurr are all great realms.

What role do you fill with this battalion/its units (support, damage, objectives)?

I generally use this battalion to lock the enemy in their territory with warriors similar to how I always play Seraphon. The battalion is a bit more of a glass hammer than Shadowstrike, but also has a much larger model count. Sadly FoS takes up a lot of points to run and there doesn't feel as though there is much wiggle room to add in supporting units like Razordons and Rippderdactyls.

How large do you make your units of Saurus? For people who max out at 40: are you usually able to get all 40 into combat? For peoplw who run 10, 20, or 30, how well does that work for you/are those sizes survivable?

I prefer to run 20x Clubs, 20x Clubs, 40x Spears. The clubs will generally get about 15 or so into combat. The spears when fighting opposing enemy hordes can fairly consistently get 30+ into combat.

Clubs or Spears? If you run spears -- in which situations would you run clubs? If you run clubs -- in which situations would you run spears?

Both. If it is 20x or lower then I use Clubs. If is 30x or higher I use spears.

How do you like the Sunblood? Do you ever make the Sunblood into your general?

The sunblood is great. Giving him Ghyrstrike from the Realm of Ghyran turns his 5+ to hit into d3 hits and his 5+ to wound into D3 damge. His command ability is also extremely strong in a Saurus centered army. My general is almost always my Slann. In events where a Slann doesn't fit into a list then I make my Skink Starpriest the General and give him the Master of Star Rituals Trait.

Do you equip your Sunblood with an artefact from the realm? If so, which artefact? Which Seraphon artefacts work best for the Sunblood?

Ghyrstrike as mention previously is a fantastic relic for the Sunblood for damage out put. When the Malign Sorcery relic are disallowed I tend to take Blade of Realities for Damage, Light for Dracothion for utility, or Incandescent Rectrices for survival.

If you run models/units to support the Sunclaw Starhost, which do you use? Why?

I always include a Skink Starpriest. Summon Starlight gives Saurus Warrior some needed durability. The Scarveteran on Carnosaur's command ability can turn a unit for 40x Saurus with Spear into a slaughter house. The Carno is also great for the Starpriest's Serpent Staff synergy.

Any tips/tricks you'd recommend for this battalion?

Run it inside of Fangs of Sotek. Turning the list into a single drop with 3 artifacts and 2 extra CP for the small tax of adding an Oldblood on Carno and 70MMP is extreme value.

 

[LizardWizard]

If you want to run Sunclaw Starhost at 1k I would consider something along the line of this:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran

LEADERS:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
Saurus Sunblood (120)
- Artefact : Ghyrstrike

UNITS:
40 x Saurus Warriors (330)
- Spears
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
- Clubs
3 x Razordons (120)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)

BATTALIONS:
Sunclaw Starhost (130)

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 83

 

[Aginor]

@LizardWizard pretty much said it all.
The problem with Saurus is that they don't hit well if you have small units of them.
The list above is probably the Sunclaw I would use (if I had enough Saurus), 40+10+10 because more than one big blob is hard to maneuver but you need one to do any decent kind of damage.

 

[Putzfrau]

Currently I run a 40/40/10 Fangs list to mediocre effect. I'm not a great player, but the general strategy is to just gain board control with your huge blocks and never give it up with summoning. I'll be honest, its kind of a pain in the ass to play. I'm not used to trying to move around with so many models and things get all clogged up real fast. Also, you really dont kill anything. You kind of just sit on objectives and wear your opponent down.

I used to run double carnos for the sweet extra attacks on 5's but it just never did anything so i've since started running a starpriest, priest, bearer and balewind in addition to the mandatories. The spells seem to do more for me than the extra attacks ever did, but as I said i'm not exactly winning GT's so what do i know!

 

[LizardWizard]

i'm not exactly winning GT's so what do i know!

It was all good advice, so a fair bit it seems.

 

[Ixt]

I've been looking at running 3 units of 20 Clubs on the basis of making them my 'smaller threats' (diluting my opponents' target priority). In other words, I wonder whether they may draw less fire without such a huge footprint?

In my tests, I assumed both units were at max capacity (40 for Spears, 20 for Clubs), and a SV/Carn & Starpriest accompanied both units. I assumed ~30 Spears and ~15 Clubs made it into combat.

As far as generating wounds went in a head-on-head competition, each unit of Clubs was like... really, really close behind Spears in terms of wounds-generated. This was due largely to being able to consistently get into combat and the buffs from support and, interestingly, the bite attacks!

Involving re-rolls improved wound output on both but, interestingly, the rerolls mostly closed the gap between Spears and Clubs.

Instances witnessing 2 units of 20 Clubs getting in (vs 1 unit of spears) saw more wounds/more survivability (split attacks coming in against them). 2 units of 20 wrecked, and when I un-buffed them, they still didn't lag far behind the buffed Spears -- unbuffed units 2 wounds behind the buffed unit.

I think this suits my playstyle. I'm not super-infatuated with huge hammer blocks, I love a combined charge, and playing the mind game is my most-used tactic.

Going to work on lists with this, more synergy, etc.. Thinking Emerald Lifeswarm is a must, and units to draw fire away from them. Namely, a Bastiladon, EotG, the Carn, etc..

Has anyone tried this approach in a 2k game (3x 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Clubs)? Considering running 1 as 30 for a 'primary target' among them.

 

[LizardWizard]

Has anyone tried this approach in a 2k game (3x 20 Saurus Warriors w/ Clubs)?

I have and I liked it a lot for many of the reasons you detailed above. Ultimately I liked a 40x Spear unit more due to increasing the magnitude of buffs affecting them. I think 40x 10x 10x and 20x 20x 20x are the best unit splits at the moment. However 40x 20x 20x is great if you just want to focus on Saurus Warriors.

Thinking Emerald Lifeswarm is a must

One thing to note that many players overlook; if you want to use Emerald Lifeswarm then you need to always go second in the round to continue to benefit from the spell. This normally translate into losing more units than you will heal due to them being hit before they swing.

 

[Ixt]

I have and I liked it a lot for many of the reasons you detailed above. Ultimately I liked a 40x Spear unit more due to increasing the magnitude of buffs affecting them. I think 40x 10x 10x and 20x 20x 20x are the best unit splits at the moment. However 40x 20x 20x is great if you just want to focus on Saurus Warriors.



One thing to note that many players overlook; if you want to use Emerald Lifeswarm then you need to always go second in the round to continue to benefit from the spell. This normally translate into losing more units than you will heal due to them being hit before they swing.

Thanks for that heads up. I'll keep that in mind. It may be worth saving that 50 points to further empower the EotG.

 

[Canas]

10x10x10 is also weirdly effective. It's not super expensive, fills your battleline & packs a suprising punch, especially since you can still buff it to a fairly asthonishing degree without much effort.

What's also nice is that it's completly unexpected. It's a horde unit, nobody expects them to do anything vaguely usefull in units of 10. But especially if you use the sunblood to support them they become amazingly reliable due to the re-rolls and extra attacks. It's not the same ridiculous damage output of a 40 horde deathstar, but it's definitly a threat against most targets. And since they're so unexpected they'l probably get to trade favourably as noone will bother to weaken them before it's too late.

Also, it's hilariously effective if you'l be facing chaos daemons. A mere 10 warriors with clubs in a sunclaw host can actually threaten a great unclean one on their own. And if they're properly supported they actually stand a decent chance of not just hurting him, but outright killing him.

 

[LizardWizard]

10x10x10 is also weirdly effective. It's not super expensive, fills your battleline & packs a suprising punch, especially since you can still buff it to a fairly asthonishing degree without much effort.

What's also nice is that it's completly unexpected. It's a horde unit, nobody expects them to do anything vaguely usefull in units of 10. But especially if you use the sunblood to support them they become amazingly reliable due to the re-rolls and extra attacks. It's not the same ridiculous damage output of a 40 horde deathstar, but it's definitly a threat against most targets. And since they're so unexpected they'l probably get to trade favourably as noone will bother to weaken them before it's too late.

Also, it's hilariously effective if you'l be facing chaos daemons. A mere 10 warriors with clubs in a sunclaw host can actually threaten a great unclean one on their own. And if they're properly supported they actually stand a decent chance of not just hurting him, but outright killing him.

10x 10x 10x is also great if you are just looking to have the extra move and one drop that Fangs of Sotek provides.

 

[ILKAIN]

10x 10x 10x is also great if you are just looking to have the extra move and one drop that Fangs of Sotek provides.

especially after last points decrease.... Saurus got a little love at least... cant wait to see what they do when we finally get a battletome.

 

[Lizerd]

Sunclaw is enjoyable, and in general while not the hyper competitive list of skink spam, it can be effective. Especially in the right environments, where the saurus have actually proven their worth to me.
My most common opponents are:
Chaos Daemons (Slaanesh and Khorne)
Death (usually legions of Nagash or legion of sacrament, Arkhan became a legend at my local GW when he wiped an 800 point unit with curse of years)
Destruction, all orruks look the same, kinda

surprisingly my 2k FoS has a decent match up against these lists and the sunclaw with the buffed saurus warriors does very well. Against khorne the warriors with buffs from a priest and starpriest can go toe to toe with a lot of them, and even if they lose the fight the enemy is held in place for a while. Something similar can be said for slaanesh which is currently my hardest match up. Against death the grind I have slowly lost, but the mobility from a few knights and 2 carnosaurs were generally able to draw games or outright win. With destruction it is so etching similar, armored orruks are tough to kill but are very slow meaning more mobile units can win the game.

In general a core sunclaw is very useful. Against demons you can get even greater daemons to run for it from blocks of ten warriors. Against other stuff a sunclaw is a bit meh as they can be out competed. At 2k, if you can run a FoS it’s definitely worth it as adding that mobility will set you apart from a slower heavily armored enemy.

 

[ILKAIN]

Sunclaw is enjoyable, and in general while not the hyper competitive list of skink spam, it can be effective. Especially in the right environments, where the saurus have actually proven their worth to me.
My most common opponents are:
Chaos Daemons (Slaanesh and Khorne)
Death (usually legions of Nagash or legion of sacrament, Arkhan became a legend at my local GW when he wiped an 800 point unit with curse of years)
Destruction, all orruks look the same, kinda

surprisingly my 2k FoS has a decent match up against these lists and the sunclaw with the buffed saurus warriors does very well. Against khorne the warriors with buffs from a priest and starpriest can go toe to toe with a lot of them, and even if they lose the fight the enemy is held in place for a while. Something similar can be said for slaanesh which is currently my hardest match up. Against death the grind I have slowly lost, but the mobility from a few knights and 2 carnosaurs were generally able to draw games or outright win. With destruction it is so etching similar, armored orruks are tough to kill but are very slow meaning more mobile units can win the game.

In general a core sunclaw is very useful. Against demons you can get even greater daemons to run for it from blocks of ten warriors. Against other stuff a sunclaw is a bit meh as they can be out competed. At 2k, if you can run a FoS it’s definitely worth it as adding that mobility will set you apart from a slower heavily armored enemy.

against the slanesh they are prolly the best... one wound models means no extra summoning points.