AoS Age of Sigmar hate?

[NIGHTBRINGER]

and basically you just waited for them to spend their dice on their biggest most scary spell and threw all your dice at it and hoped

I feel that is a fair criticism of Fantasy. The uber spells definitely needed to be toned down. Lizardmen and the infamous Purple Sun is a prime example.

 

[Canas]

I hope they cut back on magic to be honest. As a long time Fantasy player magic is part of what killed that game. Rank and file turned some people off sure, instantly getting units wiped out in combat res was dumb, but it was magic that made people quit playing. It was subject to power creep more than anything else, and for the most part if they dedicated an army around it, there was nothing you could do to stop it. Dispelling hardly worked aside from scrolls, and basically you just waited for them to spend their dice on their biggest most scary spell and threw all your dice at it and hoped. That was all you could do. I fear AOS is going the same way.

Meh to be honest I'd like more magic, but magic that actuall involves tactics and interaction. Not just throwing dice at eachother. E.g. It's much more interesting to go: "you cast doomspell X, so I cast shield Y so you cast debuff Z so I cast bufff Q" than to pray an unbinding roll stops the big spell of doom from annihlating your army... similarly, magic doesn't need to do mortal wounds. But this is more of an issue with mortal wounds being increadibly common in general and magic "needing" them to stay competitive with the normal abilities... Hell magic could even largely be focussed on control & shaping the battlefield instead of murdering your opponent and it'd be amazing. Go look at some of the suggestions I and others have made in the general handbook mk II thread. There's plenty you can do with magic without immeadiatly making it "I summon a meteor on your face and now you're dead".

 

[Killer Angel]

AoS is pretty much a simplified 40K and 40k has never been as strategic as Fantasy. My opinion is that AoS is nowhere near as strategic as WFB, KoW or T9A. Of course you are welcome to feel differently.

Yeah, my opinion is not necessarily the truth...

I hope they cut back on magic to be honest. As a long time Fantasy player magic is part of what killed that game. Rank and file turned some people off sure, instantly getting units wiped out in combat res was dumb, but it was magic that made people quit playing. It was subject to power creep more than anything else, and for the most part if they dedicated an army around it, there was nothing you could do to stop it. Dispelling hardly worked aside from scrolls, and basically you just waited for them to spend their dice on their biggest most scary spell and threw all your dice at it and hoped. That was all you could do. I fear AOS is going the same way.

Take the new Tzeentch book for example. A completely magic focused faction. Ranged mortal wounds. Mortal wounds for every magician around my units. The ability to replace my casting dice with the highest so my magic always works. And other than getting super close to dispel, or getting lucky killing the wizards early, there is nothing you can really do to stop it. emphasized the last part because that is what really will drive new players away. Its uninteractive, its punishing, and as the person on the receiving end, it drives home a feeling of negative play experience.

I agree on the part of certain infamous 8th spells. They were one of the most broken things in the game.

Regarding AoS... yes, i can share your concerns. However it must be said that the game is evolving constantly.
Tzeentch has always been a magic-focused army, so it only makes sense to underline that aspect.
Since the first release of AoS, a tzeentch army can drown you in mortal wounds spam.
Then they introduced the rule of one, nerfing many magic strategies (including Tzeentch)
And now the Lords of change are coming back stronger than before... until the next turning of the table.

I just hope that, sooner or later, there will be some countermeasure for the mortal wounds spam (which is now the new trend, and that can be delivered in so many ways it hurts)

 

[Qupakoco]

I feel that is a fair criticism of Fantasy. The uber spells definitely needed to be toned down. Lizardmen and the infamous Purple Sun is a prime example.

Cracks Call wasn't very fun either. I've lost several Dino's to that spell.

That said you really had to be on your toes in the magic phase on both teams. A miscast was usually pretty awful.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Cracks Call wasn't very fun either.

Cracks Call? ... Pit of Shades?

 

[Qupakoco]

@NIGHTBRINGER No, it's a Skaven spell. It's a 4d6 straight line of pass initiative test or die kind of thing. Very similar to Purple Sun.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

@NIGHTBRINGER No, it's a Skaven spell. It's a 4d6 straight line of pass initiative test or die kind of thing. Very similar to Purple Sun.

Hahaha... I should have known it was those vile vermin. Haven't had much chance to play against Skaven. Took a look at the spell, not as bad as Purple Sun but still nasty for our poor initiative Lizzies

Cracks Call wasn't very fun either. I've lost several Dino's to that spell.

Which Dinos? Our dinos are actually our best protected units against initiative tests since you get to use the Skink's initiative when testing for Stegadons, Bastiladons, Troglodons, Terradons and Rippers. Razordons and Salamanders are also sporting initiative 4. If you have a Solardon in range then you are only failing 1 in 6 times. Definitely possible, but I'm surprised you lost so many Dinos to that spell.

 

[Qupakoco]

Mainly my Stegs and Carnos. I liken it to bad dice rolls, lol. I even lost one with my awesome Snake Eye custom dice

 

[little-myth]

With me, I lost units to Infernal Gateway everytime I went against my boyfriend and his Warriors of Chaos. Everytime, all my units die horribly to it.

But since the rising of AoS he refused to play a game, now I do the rare game with a Wood Elf/Sylvaneth player.
Reminds me, I need to arrange another game, but I think Alarielle will be the new 'infernal gateway' for me. Who knows, I haven't battled her yet.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

But since the rising of AoS he refused to play a game

Is he still playing 8th or has he shifted to another game or quit entirely?

I lost units to Infernal Gateway everytime I went against my boyfriend and his Warriors of Chaos.

It's a pretty good spell, but very random. Plus in the latest edition it lost the ability to auto wipe unit. The warpflame special rule is also problematic for the WoC player because he/she can end up granting your unit a regen save.

All in all, I'd say it can be an extremely potent spell... but there are far worse. As far as WoC spells go, Cacophonic Choir is often considered to be the best uber spell.

 

[little-myth]

Is he still playing 8th or has he shifted to another game or quit entirely?


It's a pretty good spell, but very random. Plus in the latest edition it lost the ability to auto wipe unit. The warpflame special rule is also problematic for the WoC player because he/she can end up granting your unit a regen save.

All in all, I'd say it can be an extremely potent spell... but there are far worse. As far as WoC spells go, Cacophonic Choir is often considered to be the best uber spell.

He only plays 40k now, he tries to drag me into Mordheim but I'm not interested. So yeah he quitted for now, waiting to see what the dwarfs are like when they come out.

I think all my gaming experience was with Warriors of Chaos, so I gradually learned that he will spam that spell. Maybe my luck was bad, how even my monsters got wiped out so easily.

 

[Lachlin]

My only criticism with AoS is mortal wounds. Specifically thr current meta of mortal wound spamming.

 

[pendrake]

My only criticism with AoS is mortal wounds. Specifically the current meta of mortal wound spamming.

When!!?!!

...are Warhammer players ever going to learn to write their own rules?

• If summoning is a huge problem create house rules that are an effective and fair counter.
• If mortal wound machine guns are a huge problem create a house rule that is an effective and fair counter.

Treat the models like you own them! rather than acting like GW owns you.
[/rant]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

When!!?!!

...are Warhammer players ever going to learn to write their own rules?

• If summoning is a huge problem create house rules that are an effective and fair counter.
• If mortal wound machine guns are a huge problem create a house rule that is an effective and fair counter.

Treat the models like you own them! rather than acting like GW owns you.
[/rant]

That doesn't work in many situations. Game system aside, most players don't like to play with unofficial rules. In addition, making changes to rule sets always carries with it the inherent problem that the changes will benefit some armies over others.

That said, if everyone in a particular gaming group agrees to the changes, then definitely go for it.

 

[Lachlin]

When!!?!!

...are Warhammer players ever going to learn to write their own rules?

• If summoning is a huge problem create house rules that are an effective and fair counter.
• If mortal wound machine guns are a huge problem create a house rule that is an effective and fair counter.

Treat the models like you own them! rather than acting like GW owns you.
[/rant]

Yes because the mortal wound slinging cheese dicks in the local scene will certainly agree to use any homegrown house rule that negates their love for slinging mortal wounds around.

 

[Bowser]

Most players would prefer to be tournament ready, some will enjoy house rules, but most tournaments will have very few if any house rules. Having and using the points system is set up for tournament style play. Though a lot of leagues will allow a lot more house ruling, but the point of those is building a community and sales. Free play is still available as well as start collecting grow leagues, and path to glory campaigns.
Players need to evolve with the game. There are a lot of factions that are basically support factions. Those should be used to expand your army to either deliver or defend mortal wounds and other hard to deal with mechanics. Even if you modify those to fit into your faction. As long as it is clear to your opponent which warscroll you are using, most have no problems with this, even in the tournament scene.

 

[Canas]

When!!?!!

...are Warhammer players ever going to learn to write their own rules?

• If summoning is a huge problem create house rules that are an effective and fair counter.
• If mortal wound machine guns are a huge problem create a house rule that is an effective and fair counter.

Treat the models like you own them! rather than acting like GW owns you.
[/rant]

If only we were experienced game-balancers and could oversee the consequences of our actions with only a few games played

In all seriousness though, I'd expect most people who play casually to do it to some degree. E.g. I'd guess that most players won't moan if you want to play your starter set with 12 warriors and don't want to pay for 20 warriors of points. But a lot of effects are too complicated to balance easily by just going "Il do X instead". Plus, playtesting isn't all that fun for most players.. they just want to play, not test your new rules...

Take mortal wounds, what do you do with them? Rule of one for spells? That just results in fairly useless wizards, plus magic doesn't seem to be the worst offender anyways. What about replacing it by normal wounds? What is the equivalent of D3 mortal wounds? D6 normal wounds? 2D3? 2D3 with rend -2? What if you end up facing largely unarmoured troops anyway? Or largely armoured troops? What if a lot of em have rend protection? it's easy enough to come up with ideas, but quite difficult to actually figure out what works.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

If only we were experienced game-balancers and could oversee the consequences of our actions with only a few games played

it's easy enough to come up with ideas, but quite difficult to actually figure out what works.

Precisely!

Additionally, how many of us can say we are free bias? It's tough to implement rules because it's often going carry with it the feeling that someone is trying to enhance their army/position. You need a really experienced and tight knit group to make it work effectively.