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8th Ed. Advice on Cold One Cav

Captain Krox
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Captain Krox

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Hello everyone!

Very new to Lizardmen, and WFB in general, and I must say that I am enjoying it greatly. I bought a Batallion Box, Steg and extra box of Skinks to get started. I've built everything but the Cold One Cav and the Steg.

So I've been reading quite a bit here about the Cold One Cav. are not a great unit. Could I get some insight please? Should I build these or just sell em off.

Also, I joined Lizardmen at an interesting (and costly) time as it seems a large portion of our Lords, Heroes and other units will be cast in resin soon. Good and bad, because I can paint (good) while I wait (bad).

Thanks in advance!
 
Cold One Cav are considered over priced and that is what has gotten so many peoples hackles up about them.
Personally I love them and nearly every list I use has them. The trick, as with ever unit, is to try and get favourable match ups; hit infantry on the flanks, go after harassment units, you can load them up to go after monsters.

Here are the advantages the Cold One Cav have in our book;
WS4, only one othe unit has this (Temple GUard), M7 the fastest moving unit in our book with the exception of terradon riders, 2+ armour save the only unit that has this high a save, one of two units that can take a magic standard, Strength 5 on the charge.

Negatives;
low initiative as with every saurus unit, high points cost, stupidity (I honestly think this is not a huge issue, cold blooded Ld 8 is enough to be confident of it not affecting your game plan, if you are worried there is a very cheap magic banner that gives you +1 to your leadership).

People talk about cavalries death in 8th ed but I think you'll find they provide several options that would otherwise be unavailable without specialty units. Cavalry has become a utility player on the tabletop.
 
It is also a really good place to put that challenge monkey scar-vet or old one (if you need somewhere to put them). I just proxy out one or two of my cold one cavalry as a scarvet or lord. Works great.
 
COR are over priced and do not fare well against other people's heavy cavalry. But in 8th many people have stopped taking lots of heavy cavalry.

COR can still do very well, especially if you keep them away from massed or high strength missile fire. But don't expect them to do it on their own.
 
well, against other heavy cavalry, not including Chaos Knights and the VC Blood Knights, if they get the charge the COC can do just fine, most other cav is only S3 when not charging (or has ASL, I'm looking at you questing knights) and even better only T3 against our S5 on the charge S4 normally. Seeing as how we can put a magic standard on them to have an extra d6 inch charge range it is not that difficult to get that charge off.
 
So for those who run with CoC, how many riders do you have? Is 8 enough or would 12-16 be good?
 
Depends on the use they will be put to, if they are just for dealing with things like skirmishers, fast cav warmachine hunters type thing, then a unit of six would suffice. If you want to use them to counter your opponents flankers then eight to ten. If you they are any larger than that you really need to design your army around them as they become incredibly expensive and highly attractive targets for your opponent.
 
In a high point game (3k) if I take them, I will take at least 10 (or actually 9 plus a scar-vet or old blood). That way, I can cancel ranks if I use them to flank.
 
novatomato said:
well, against other heavy cavalry, not including Chaos Knights and the VC Blood Knights, if they get the charge the COC can do just fine, most other cav is only S3 when not charging (or has ASL, I'm looking at you questing knights) and even better only T3 against our S5 on the charge S4 normally. Seeing as how we can put a magic standard on them to have an extra d6 inch charge range it is not that difficult to get that charge off.
Click to expand...

If they get a charge off and if they have a magic standard...

How much does the heavy cavalry unit they face cost in comparison? Including the magic standard?

The heavy cavalry that although Str3, has a lance so will be Str5 if they get the charge! And isn't stupid...

COR pay too much for cold blooded and fear, like other cavalry they now also pay too much for being cavalry. They aren't bad, it's just you can get far more for your points.
 
If I take any I usually take 11 + Scar-vet with crown of command.

With their 2+ save they can take some punishment in close combat, but I find mine tend to loose to static combat res (usually in subsequent rounds when they loose the Strength bonus). A scar vet with Crown of Command can even the odds and they can be quite nice to hit a large unit and tie them down.

However, they are expensive. You can pretty much get 3 saurus warriors for the same cost, so you have to use them wisely. I still only really take them in 3k+ games where I can justify the points spent on them (would much rather take a steg or two which are nearly as fast)

The best use I have found for them is with the Sun Standard (-1 or -2 to Hit from shooting attacks). You can charge them forward into large enemy shooting units with only a few casualties (repeater crosswbows, I'm looking at you) and cut down enemy shooting quicker and safer than with other units.
 
@BEEGfrog, what you are paying for is S4 base attacks, T4, Fear (Which can be really useful in the areas these guys operate in, ie away from enemy generals and BSB's), and Cold-Blooded. Because of Cold-Blooded, Stupidity is not a huge factor, ld8 CB is better than ld9. I am not saying they are a bargain buy, but against heavy cav like Knights of the realm, or the empires knightly orders, a smaller unit of Cold One cavalry can beat them out due merely to its superior stat line, even though that is not their main use.
 
Another question,

Are they best armed with Spears or HW/S?

Build the Cold Ones, just deciding what to arm the riders with.

:)
 
The spears aren't optional on our cavalry iirc. They have them.
 
It is also worth noting that Mounted models do not gain parry saves from H/S, page 88 BRB.
 
if you compare COC and TG you get the following:

same WS, same S in the 1st turn (if COC charge) otherwise +1s for TG. +1 WS 3 S4 attacks for the COC and +2 save. +3M for the COC

allmost 3x the cost. both can get magic banner but TG champ can get magic items.
 
You forgot movement 7 for cav and +1 strength on the charge and causes fear and the extra attack from the cold ones.
 
I take Cold One Cavalry in all my lists (I take that back, in my one and only list). It was originally because I had the models, but I've found that they are extremely useful. First off, they are a great scar-veteran delivery system. Other than that I use them for flank charges, to take out supporting units and shooting, and to scare away units that don't like flaming attacks (Banner of Eternal Flame). I find that they don't really work for taking out monsters with regen like the Hydra, Abomination, and others because they simply have such low initiative so too many die before even attacking, but they still have their uses. For one, even though they won't kill a regenerating monster, they have flaming attacks at initiative 2 that will take away the regen save for the round before your initiative 1 saurus strike.
 
n810 said:
You forgot movement 7 for cav and +1 strength on the charge and causes fear and the extra attack from the cold ones.
Click to expand...


its all there. and while COC have S5 on the charge, TG have S5 allways, not to mention that the cold one attack is weaker than the supporting attacks of the TG. movement 7 and fear aren't really that great if you ask me. the way games move sine 8th ed, M7 doesn't guarantee a charge anymore, just some flanking opportunities, but as long as the opponent is protecting his flanks with some blocks the extra movement can be ignored. and while fear is nice any BSB can pretty much counter it, add to that the fact that lords can be bought even in low point games and you can prety much ignore fear aswell
 
I have been doing mathhammer on Cold One Riders v various knights

The deciding factor seems to be who gets the charge and thus the extra strength attacks.

I may get my old skinks on Cold Ones out for a run and see what they do in practice.

They are still expensive, the best comparison would probably be to Dark Elf COK who are 8 points a model cheaper.
 
and have S6 on the charge, hated, better WS and I.

do a mathammer against TG and see how they measure up.
 
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