AoS A few Death questions

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

As you might now I am planning to start a second army, mainly for laughs but also to paint and play something really different for a change. My focus will stay on Seraphon, but Something about Skeleton hordes intrigues me, so when my friend suggested that we build an army together, and that he likes ghosts, I thought "HELL YEAH, DEATHRATTLE FOR ME!!" (leaving the Malignants for him, which are also pretty nice actually).

I have a few questions though, so if you know something about Death, please take a look!

1. About Allegiance: Black Knights are Battleline if you have Deathrattle Allegiance. Arkhan the Black and Necromancers are NOT Deathrattle though, but "Deathlords" and "Deathmages" respectively. Do they break allegiance? And if they don't: Where does that rule come from? Are Deathlords and Deathmages kinda wildcards for Death? I don't get it. IMO running a Death army without a Deathlord or a Deathmage is pretty pointless.
Same for a Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist. Not many keywords there.

2. I still wonder about Mantic vs. GW Skeletons. Half the price sounds good... I am searching for a picture comparison where someone painted them in the same style, to see how it looks. Do you have some?

3. Which one is scarier: Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist? And why? I tend to say the latter because it doesn't explode.

4. Would you say this (completely fictional, I don't intend to buy that much stuff yet) 2000pt list is scary or not? Reasons please.


Allegiance: Deathrattle

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)
Necromancer (120)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
10 x Black Knights (240)
- Deathrattle Battleline

Units
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

Battalions
Legion of Death (60)

Total: 2000/2000


As said before I will aim for something smaller, but the idea is a load of Skellies (provided I enjoy painting them, I mean: Thats 120 of those guys... ), starting with this list (Starterbox plus a few others.) to have 1000pt (yes, actually 1020pt but you get what I mean):


Allegiance: Deathrattle

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)
Necromancer (120)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
5 x Black Knights (120)
- Deathrattle Battleline

Total: 1020/1000

 

[Bowser]

Death Rattle and Death lords are two different factions. So you can't have the black knights as battleline with a deathlord hero. Terrorgheist all the way. Death shriek is great, just tougher, healing factor and lots of damage output. That 2k list is pretty badass!

 

[Aginor]

Ok.... huh... What about Deathmages?
Necromancer + Skellies = Deathrattle broken? Is there any unit that can summon in Deathrattle instead?

 

[Bowser]

Khemrian Warsphinx can, and the tomb herald can resurrect 1 to each unit while planted.

 

[Aginor]

Hmmm... ok. Doesn't matter much anyway, mixed Death it is then.

 

[Killer Angel]

I have a few questions though, so if you know something about Death, please take a look!

It happens i do.

1. About Allegiance: Black Knights are Battleline if you have Deathrattle Allegiance. Arkhan the Black and Necromancers are NOT Deathrattle though, but "Deathlords" and "Deathmages" respectively. Do they break allegiance? And if they don't: Where does that rule come from? Are Deathlords and Deathmages kinda wildcards for Death? I don't get it. IMO running a Death army without a Deathlord or a Deathmage is pretty pointless.
Same for a Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist. Not many keywords there.

Yeah, to run a certain allegeance, requires that ALL the models have the keyword of that Allegiance.
In the case of Black Knights as battleline, to field Deathrattle Allegiance, a general could be the Wight King, or Krell (but this one doesn't have points in the general handbook)

Are Deathlords and Deathmages kinda wildcards for Death? I don't get it. IMO running a Death army without a Deathlord or a Deathmage is pretty pointless.
Same for a Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist. Not many keywords there.

You use them in armies with Death Allegiance. They have the keyword Death.

2. I still wonder about Mantic vs. GW Skeletons. Half the price sounds good... I am searching for a picture comparison where someone painted them in the same style, to see how it looks. Do you have some?

Nope, sorry

3. Which one is scarier: Zombie Dragon or Terrorgheist? And why? I tend to say the latter because it doesn't explode.

It depends, I tend to favor terrorgheist. Death shriek is nice, but it's also true that i support it with screaming skull catapult.

4. Would you say this (completely fictional, I don't intend to buy that much stuff yet) 2000pt list is scary or not? Reasons please.


Allegiance: Deathrattle

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)
Necromancer (120)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
10 x Black Knights (240)
- Deathrattle Battleline

Units
10 x Grave Guard (160)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

Battalions
Legion of Death (60)

Total: 2000/2000

All 3 mortarchs are nice, but they come with different abilities.
Arkhan is made for a strong magic army, and you are using just a necromancer.

Warriors and Grave guards are good, but they need support, and I don't see it. A Vampire Lord as general would offer great boosts, the wight king is useful staying near your skeleton hordes with the infernal standard, and for this task he doesn't need to be the general.
You cannot use black knight as battleline because of the necromancer and Arkhan

As said before I will aim for something smaller, but the idea is a load of Skellies (provided I enjoy painting them, I mean: Thats 120 of those guys... ), starting with this list (Starterbox plus a few others.) to have 1000pt (yes, actually 1020pt but you get what I mean):


Allegiance: Deathrattle

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)
Necromancer (120)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
5 x Black Knights (120)
- Deathrattle Battleline

Total: 1020/1000

Same as before: no Deathrattle Allegiance, so you need a different battleline.
Skeleton horsemen from Tomb Kings? 5 are 100 pts and it would fit in 1000

 

[Aginor]

Hmmmm actually just from reading the warscrolls I thought the Necromancer's Danse Macabre Spell and the Wight King's command ability would offer pretty good support for the Skellies....
Well, back to the drawing board I guess!

Still trying to figure out what to do. My friend and I want to create an army from Nighthaunt and Deathrattle that could go halfway well together OR (for the fun) against each other, let's say 1000 points each.
Any good ideas? We want to start from the Start Collecting boxes if that makes any sense.

Edit: and no Vampires if possible. I don't like how their models look...

 

[Aginor]

Also: what kind of Starter Boxes are those supposed to be? One doesn't contain a single hero and only a bit over 400 points (Malignants), and the other contains a hero that doesn't fit and only ten of those guys everyone wants to have 40 of?
Damn as Seraphon players we are really spoiled....

 

[Killer Angel]

Hmmmm actually just from reading the warscrolls I thought the Necromancer's Danse Macabre Spell and the Wight King's command ability would offer pretty good support for the Skellies....
Well, back to the drawing board I guess!

They are good. It's just that wight King doesn't offer a meaningful command ability, while a Vampire Lord is a great general.

Still trying to figure out what to do. My friend and I want to create an army from Nighthaunt and Deathrattle that could go halfway well together OR (for the fun) against each other, let's say 1000 points each.
Any good ideas? We want to start from the Start Collecting boxes if that makes any sense.

I will think on it, but it really depends.
Nighthaunts work well targetting the bravery of enemy's units, so it's fun to build a list with Mortis engine, a couple of Banshees and a screaming catapult. It doesn't work so well if that list goes against Deathrattle...

Starting from the collecting box, you'll have Spirit Hosts (which are a GREAT unit, but i would recommend a group of 6, especially if buffed by Vlad von Carstein) and Hexwraiths (another useful unit, truly strong objective grabbers). You need to support them with mystic shield, to exploit that sweet immunity to rend.

 

[Aginor]

Oh man, that Mannfred guy isn't that bad. But he looks really bad compared to Arkhan...

I already have three spirit hosts, and the Starter Box has another three. So let's see....

If we used a Starter Box Malignants, 3 additional Spirit Hosts and Arkhan from the other Box we get this:


Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)

Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline

Units
5 x Hexwraiths (160)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 920/1000


EDIT: maybe a Cairn Wraith could be cool? Beautiful model. Would put the list near 1000.
EDIT 2: And/or a Tomb Banshee??

Would that work halfway decently? Arkhan looks like he might be able to buff them quite well and in turn profit from the Morris Engine.

...which of course makes the other side of the equation (Deathrattle) much worse. Let's see...

 

[Aginor]

Ok I just looked again to see if I could mayyybe stand looking at a Vampire.
...I..I cant. If I kitbash his helmet close I might accept the one on the dragon, but the other ones are just horrible.

 

[Aginor]

Ok this is actually 1200 points, but could that work?


Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
Necromancer (120)
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance

Battleline
5 x Black Knights (120)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (320)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Total: 1200/1000

EDIT: maybe just use a few less Skellies for the start. And I'll order some Mantic ones and see whether they work. We will never play Death at the GW store so it won't matter.

 

[Killer Angel]

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)

Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline

Units
5 x Hexwraiths (160)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 920/1000


EDIT: maybe a Cairn Wraith could be cool? Beautiful model. Would put the list near 1000.
EDIT 2: And/or a Tomb Banshee??

Banshee is cool, and even cairn wraith if you fight hordes, but you cannot use Spirit Hosts as Battleline, cause not all your units are nighthaunt.
Yeah, not even the Mortis Engine (don't ask why).

Of all the possible allegiances of Death Faction, Nighthaunt is the one that needs more desperately something new.
Unless you use a Mourngul.

At that point, for a pure Nighthaunt Allegiance (1000 pts):

Banshee (general, ruler of the night, cursed book) - 80.
Mourngul (400)
6 Spirit Hosts (battleline - 240)
3 Spirit Host (battleline - 120)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)

Stick the Banshee near the mourngul, go against big targets and slay'em all, while hexwraiths and SH take objectives.
It requires the same tactic as parking with a Sherman tank.

 

[Aginor]

Argh I guess we will probably just have to ignore that damn battleline rule....
For combined games the Deathrattle will have to bring the Battlelines and the Nighthaunts will be the Elite hitters.

 

[Aginor]

For those who have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon:
Do you think it is possible to just magnetize that guy, and optionally play him as a Vampire Lord on foot? I mean: I don't care much if his pose looks slightly weird, still better than those laughable looks the other Vampires have.

At least that guy has an almost full helmet. The Necromancer's face is bad enough, no need for another cheesy vampire grimace.

 

[Aginor]

Also I HAVE to try those Mantic Skeletons! They sell an army of 40 Skellies for 28€ ?? Holy crap!

 

[Crowsfoot]

Also I HAVE to try those Mantic Skeletons! They sell an army of 40 Skellies for 26€ ?? Holy crap!

Yeah they are cheap but just be aware they are smaller and you want a good quality glue to put them together.

 

[Crowsfoot]

For those who have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon:
Do you think it is possible to just magnetize that guy, and optionally play him as a Vampire Lord on foot? I mean: I don't care much if his pose looks slightly weird, still better than those laughable looks the other Vampires have.

At least that guy has an almost full helmet. The Necromancer's face is bad enough, no need for another cheesy vampire grimace.

I put Manfred on mine so you could easily magnetize him but what I would do is split him at the waist and have a set of legs for the mount and a set for on foot.

 

[Aginor]

Hmmm.... I guess I could do that then.

The thing is that I like the Command ability of the Vampire Lord on foot better.

But wait...
I just noticed that the "Blood Feast" command ability is the same as the Wight King's "Lord of Bones", except that the latter only applies for Deathrattle (which I intend it to use for anyway). So @Killer Angel I don't really understand this part of your post:

It's just that wight King doesn't offer a meaningful command ability, while a Vampire Lord is a great general.

Why that is so much worse (for an army that uses mainly Deathrattle that is, I understand that when mixed it isn't that good). Could you clarify that for me? I am not sure what I am missing.

 

[Killer Angel]

So @Killer Angel I don't really understand this part of your post:

Why that is so much worse (for an army that uses mainly Deathrattle that is, I understand that when mixed it isn't that good). Could you clarify that for me? I am not sure what I am missing.

Sure!

Vampire Lord. Command Ability: "Blood Feast".
If your general is a VL, you can use the ability: pick a Death unit within 15". Models in that unit make one extra attack with each of their melee weapons until your next hero phase.

Wight King. Command Ability: none
If your general is a Wight King, you can just use Inspiring Presence. Not bad on a unit of 40 skellies, but there's no match if you compare it to Blood Feast.
What's truly good of the WK is the Infernal Standard, but you don't need to set the WK as general, to use it.