AoS 4th Edition is nearly here...

[Kilvakar]

How bad is our spearhead carno?

It's trash, to be honest. It's jaw only does one more damage than the Gnashtoof's jaw, although to be fair it does have better to wound/rend but fewer attacks. The Boss-Sticka is basically the same weapon, just one less attack but does mortals on 6s. It's got 4 less wounds but a 3+ save! (I doubt anything in our army other than a Bastiladon will have a 3+ save...) So for a monster that almost certainly will be much cheaper points-wise, it has a pretty good chance of beating a Carnosaur in a 1v1 fight. Hopefully our big dino has some great abilities, because it's stats are poop. Most likely it will just get more control score stuff though

 

[Canas]

The Boss-Sticka is basically the same weapon, just one less attack but does mortals on 6s.

At least that one makes sense; they seem to have standardized rider weapons across the board.

What's more surprising is that all the actual carno get is his bite. It's a big dinosaur, with a whopping 3 attacks (or 1 while wounded..). Which is abysmall for a centerpiece model.

Maybe the proper warscroll gives him back his claw attacks?

It's got 4 less wounds but a 3+ save! (I doubt anything in our army other than a Bastiladon will have a 3+ save...)

I'm honestly curious how GW is planning to deal with our defenses.
Previously our bad stats were excused by the fact we could summon. But now that summoning has died as a mechanic we need actual stats; especially for our saurus. But the spearhead doesn't really show any meaningfull changes in that regards.

So for a monster that almost certainly will be much cheaper points-wise, it has a pretty good chance of beating a Carnosaur in a 1v1 fight.

Don't forget, the carno has a damage table, and quite a rough table for that matter. The gnashtooth doesn't.
If the gnashtooth goes first the carno is pretty screwed.

Hopefully our big dino has some great abilities, because it's stats are poop. Most likely it will just get more control score stuff though

Of course it gets control score. It's a general-type unit leading its troops, and GW can't think of any other mechanics anyway

 

[Canas]

Vampires:

Faction:

• Vampires heal D3 if they fought, 2D3 if it destroyed a unit in combat. Healing happens at the end of a turn
• gravewalker or deathrattle units can deepstrike from all terrain
  
• Heal up to 3 gravewalker/deathrattle units near 1 hero (Deathly invocation)
  
• Ressurect dead units at half strength. Original unit needs to be 2+ models. Cost a CP.
  • Can ressurect near a hero, or near terrain

The vampire healing is neat. But a bit weird that it only occurs at the end of the turn. Not sure why it doesn't occur immeadiatly after fighting with that vampire.

Also, the fact that they can use all terrain is a bit weird. You can use enemy faction terrain to deepstrike or ress your models. Thematicly that's stupid. And mechanicly it's obnoxious.

More interesting than most of what we've seen though. Seems like GW is contiuing it's weird love of undead.

Subfaction:

• +1 rend for deathrattle units if they charge and attack a smaller unit

Eh... sort of thematic when it's a horde of skeletons fighting a few humans. Kind of silly when they're fighting a big monster.
Also, depending on the match-up this is effectivly a near permanent buff. Like against SoB. While against horde armies it's terrible.
Weird rule.

Spells:

• Vile transference:
  • Roll 1 dice per model in the target
  • On a 6+ deal a mortal wound
  • If you slay a model, heal the caster
  • 18" range
  • No rule of one

Well... this is the best spell so far by a freaking landslide. It has longer ranged than most, both offensive & defensive value, pretty reliable against the intended targets. Most importantly though; it's actually interesting and thematic. Really the only thing missing is a way to make it relevant against smaller units.

Units:

• Radukar:
  • Absolutly murders a carnosaur....
  • +1 to wound for nearby allies after charging. But doesn't appear to buff himself? Weird
    
  • When not in combat, move D6.
  • Personal spell: -1 to hit selfbuff.
• Lauka Vai:
  • Also beats a carnosaur to a bloody pulp
    
  • -1 to rend for melee weapons when in combat with her
    • again, attacks don't need to actually target her. GW really doesn't seem to want to give people ways to play around certain things do they...
  • Rampage: roll a dice, if it's lower than the targets health deal that many mortal wounds. (so the inverse of a giant stuffing a small model in a bag)
  • Personal spell: give a monster D3 extra attacks to its companion attacks.
    
    • Terrible 12" range. Especially silly when you consider Lauka already fullfills the role of monster herself. Why would you have a 2nd monster that close by?
• Blood knights:
  • Can move through infantry, screw your screens I guess.
    
  • deal D3 damage to a unit it moved through.
  • Counts as a vampire, so it heals itself.
• Vargheist
  • Deepstrike
  • Counts as vampire

Spearhead:

• Vargheist has to deepstrike in turn 3 (... this is what, the 5th spearhead that has such a rule?)
• Vampires heal for the damage that they dealt
• Skeletons:
  • For each slain model, roll a D6 on a 5+ it gets back up.
    
  • It's not clear when you use this. It just says "combat phase" but do you use it each time a model is slain? At the end of combat? Whenever you feel like it but only once per combat?

Anyways; seems to be one of the more inspired and thematic factions. GW's love for vampires seems to continue into 4th.

Our spearhead carnosaur gets more depressing by the minute. Both Radukar & Lauka beat it easily, neither have a damage table despite being monsters. I reaaaally want to know what the proper carno warscroll looks like.

The first faction to get an actually decently designed spell. At the same time, Radukar's personal spell is absurdly lame, and Lauka's spell isn't much better.

Also, probably one of the few factions for whom losing summoning isn't a big deal given how much healing its vampire units are getting in return.

 

[Putzfrau]

Seraphon on monday, woooo!

 

[Kilvakar]

Seraphon on monday, woooo!

Nice!

 

[Canas]

Seraphon on monday, woooo!

There's a schedule somewhere?

 

[Just A Skink]

There's a schedule somewhere?

Yes. At the bottom of each of the army tease articles it says which army will be next.

 

[Putzfrau]

Seraphon look incredible.

 

[Canas]

Seraphon:

faction:

• Pick an asterism at the start of the game
  • 4 buffs:
    • companion weapons have crit (2)
    • -1 to rend for attacks that target Seraphon in our own territory
    • +2" to move
    • +1 to casting
• From the 3th turn onward; pick a 2nd asterism if you fullfill requirements. Fluffed as fullfilling the great plan.
  • In the same order as previously listed:
    • Destroy 3 units
    • No enemies in your territory
    • Enemy general has been killed
    • Have a slann and no slann in combat or killed

One of the better faction abilities shown. Getting the 2nd asterism is a nice touch; but I fear you'll see certain asterisms being strongly favoured.
Maybe they should've made individually weaker asterisms but make it possible to get all of them?

Subfaction:

• Select 3 saurus or kroxigor, make a pile-in move, then do some mortal wounds to an enemy.

It's more interesting than most subfactions, not that that's a high bar to pass.

Spells:

• -1 to rend for a target
• 12" range....
• At least it's not subject to the rule of one

Kind of what's to be expected given what we've seen so far. Boring & annoyingly short ranged. Magic has never been terribly interesting in AoS; but 4th seems determined to be the most boring based on these "exciting" reveals.

Units:

• Slann:
  • 6/3+/3+/1/1 crit(mortal). So a vaguely functional melee profile.
  • 5+ save, but a 6++ ward.
  • Arcane vassal
  • Unlimited range unbinds, +1 to casting rolls
  • Personal spell: +1 to casting rolls for seraphon.
  • Celestial reinforcements: ressurect a seraphon unit at halfstrengt if it started with 3+ models.
• Carno:
  • Clawed forearms where indeed missing from the spearhead warscroll.
  • Spear gets charge +1 damage.
  • If the carno charged +1 to charge rolls for nearby saurus.
  • Control score nonsense, obviously
  • rampage: get strike first when fighting damaged monsters
• Terradons:
  • Javins & bolas are merged into 1 profile: 10"/3/4+/5+/-/1 crit(auto-wound)
  • -1 to shooting attacks targeting it
  • Deadly cargo:
    • roll a dice per terradon
    • add +2 if a terradon chief is in combat range (that seems awefully close?)
    • On a 5+ do a mortal wound
    • If the target doesn't have fly, and is wounded, it can't run
    • No longer limited to once per game
• EoTG:
  • Melee profile: 6/4+/2+/1/2 charge (+1 damage) companion
  • Meteoric javalins: 12"/6/4+/4+/-/1 shoot into combat
  • Rampage: after being charged roll a dice. Do some mortal damage and get +1 to saves for attacks fomr the enemy that charged
  • EoTG effect:
    • Use power, or save for next turn. If you save power, your next roll gets +1 (or +2 if you save 2 turns etc.)
    • When using the power pick one of the following:
      
    • 3+ heal D3 wounds on everything within 12"
    • 5+ ressurect a model for 3 units
    • 6+ give 3 models strike first

Spearhead:

• Carno can eat a model (same rule as giants stuffing someone in a bag)
• Warriors warscroll was already leaked.

Anyways;
Our faction ability is pretty decent and actually vaguely thematic.
Our spell is as boring as you'd expect.
The slann's personal spell is hilariously lame. "Here is the best caster in your army. His job is to make your other casters better." Seriously, what is the point of the higher level wizards when this is the type spells GW gives them?
The replacement of summoning is boring. Not that our summoning mechanic was ever terribly interesting. At least it's functional.
The carnosaur benefits a lot from actually getting to use his claws in his full warscroll.
The terradons feel rather weak. Deadly cargo needs multiple bombing runs to achieve much, but they're rather squishy and are unlikely to actually achieve that. Also, needing to hug the chieftan feels a bit awkward. They also lack a special rule to allow them to avoid combat and do multiple runs.
They feel halfbaked.

EoTG: ranged attack is improved (longer range, more attacks, better stats). It's still not good, but at least those javalins might now actually hit something. Melee profile is massivly nerfed. For a monster it has a terrible profile. Worse than our spearhead carno even. Paying a lot for that Engine ability. Feels a bit harsh. Also; not a fan of the "use now, or save a charge" effect for the engine. It's the sole reason you bring that model; having it stand around waiting for a turn is lame. The effect itself is fine.

 

[Putzfrau]

They feel halfbaked.

It's almost like we're only seeing 4 scrolls, 1 spell and a page of battle traits

 

[Just A Skink]

Seraphon look incredible.

Care to elaborate?

I assume you're excited about the asterisms?

 

[Putzfrau]

Care to elaborate?

I assume you're excited about the asterisms?

No, weakest part of what they've shown. Slann looks cracked, carnosaur's damage is upgraded over what we have now, we already know kroxigor are good and saurus are more or less staying the same. Engine is much improved over the current.

 

[Just A Skink]

No, weakest part of what they've shown. Slann looks cracked, carnosaur's damage is upgraded over what we have now, we already know kroxigor are good and saurus are more or less staying the same. Engine is much improved over the current.

Personally, the Slann looks good but not cracked? Trust me, a slann now is good and almost mandatory. Is it because GW has currently gone back to unlimited Vassal casts, at an increased 18" range? Everything else feels pretty much like the current Slann.

Seeing this Slann scroll and +1 cast asterism does make me wonder very much about the Astrolith warscroll.

 

[Putzfrau]

Personally, the Slann looks good but not cracked? Trust me, a slann now is good and almost mandatory. Is it because GW has currently gone back to unlimited Vassal casts, at an increased 18" range? Everything else feels pretty much like the current Slann.

Seeing this Slann scroll and +1 cast asterism does make me wonder very much about the Astrolith warscroll.

You can roll every turn to bring back a unit at half strength.

edit: also, keeping boardwide unbind and dispells is huge. thought for sure that would go.

 

[Just A Skink]

You can roll every turn to bring back a unit at half strength.

True. I guess I wasn't really factoring in that b/c virtually every troop-based army can do that, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Globular]

Yeah, between the "resurrect a dead swarm every turn" on Slann and the "plus 2 to Speed" asterism, I can see Saurus swarms coming back in a big way

 

[Canas]

It's almost like we're only seeing 4 scrolls, 1 spell and a page of battle traits

I mean, sure, maybe starpriests gets a "fix-fundamental-flaw-in-terradons"-spell; but that doesn't suddenly make it a well-designed unit.
It just means that for some inexplicable reason you split its warscroll in half and put a fundamental part of it on an external spell/unit/whatever.

Hell, the dependency on the chief for reliable hits with deadly cargo, and especially the weird range requirement, is already bad enough. But even with a chief there's still the fundamental issue that Terradons are a basic and fragile skirmishing unit with no actual skirmishing rules (e.g. " can run & shoot" and "no damage when retreating" are kind of necesary to make them functional)

No, weakest part of what they've shown. Slann looks cracked

Lol....

Given the magic shown off so far, the slann is boring. It's not even the Slann's fault, every wizard looks pretty mediocre so far thanks to 99% of the spells just being utterly underwhelming and GW refusing to to give any sort of interesting personal spells.

You can roll every turn to bring back a unit at half strength.

You do realize this is just the replacement of summoning right? And our old summoning was already 99% on the slann anyway. The only thing they've really done is explicitly put the rule on the Slann's warscroll instead of pretending it's a "seperate" rule.

Also like half the armies shown off so far have a comparable rule; it's not even that special.

True. I guess I wasn't really factoring in that b/c virtually every troop-based army can do that, if I'm not mistaken.

Yup, it's not terribly unique.
We have 1 advantage and 1 disadvantage compared to others:

• Our "summoning" requires a 4+, and is unreliable (the rest just summons)
  
• We can bring multiple slanns and technically "summon" multiple troops in one turn (most others are limited by a rule of 1 equivalent)

Engine is much improved over the current.

The EoTG is a mixed bag.
The effect seems a bit easier to use. But the butchered melee profile & lack of secondary abilities is a bit weird.

 

[Putzfrau]

You do realize this is just the replacement of summoning right? And our old summoning was already 99% on the slann anyway. The only thing they've really done is explicitly put the rule on the Slann's warscroll instead of pretending it's a "seperate" rule.

No army gets summoning. Free rule to bring back a unit every turn is money. Embrace the joy.

Terradon just needs to land within 3 to get the buff. Rocks were never super reliable and you can use them multiple times now. If someone wants to chase terradons down, be my guest.

You can't bring multiple slann and summon multiple troops. Most costs something (battle trait, command poitn, once per game). Ours is a conditional roll. Its great.

They showed off 2 spells, both we already have, and both are already good and kept most of their goodness. Both effects also got better. Cast bonuses are rarer, and save modifiers are less prevelant making reducing rend better. Endless spells are also now free, huge bonus.

Butchered melee profile is also a misnomer. new profile does an average of less than a single damage on any relevant profile assuming AoA on both, and thats without accounting for the much better bracketing on the new model, or the potential crits from the asterism which actually makes it do more damage.

You seem to just blanket over like 99% of the relevant context to be more hyperbolic in your judgement.

 

[Canas]

Terradon just needs to land within 3 to get the buff. Rocks were never super reliable and you can use them multiple times now. If someone wants to chase terradons down, be my guest.

The point is that Terradons are a skirmishing troop without the ability to actually skirmish, because they have a glaringly obvious hole in their core design. Which is lame...

It's not even like giving them "run and shoot" or "can retreat" would be a major buff; it's the basics needed to finish their core design.

You can't bring multiple slann and summon multiple troops. Most costs something (battle trait, command poitn, once per game). Ours is a conditional roll. Its great.

And previously we had regular summoning. Which was also a 100% tied to the slann.
The only good news about this new variant is that now the slann gets to actually cast, which is nice. But honestly; it's the bare minimum & our old summoning should've never been designed with that stupid caveat to begin with.

Anyways the actual "summoning" is nothing special. Both compared to our old "summoning", as well as compared to the baseline set by other summoning factions in 4th.

They showed off 2 spells, both we already have, and both are already good and kept most of their goodness. Both effects also got better. Cast bonuses are rarer, and save modifiers are less prevelant making reducing rend better. Endless spells are also now free, huge bonus.

If only the spells were interesting....
Don't get me wrong; I'm sure celestial equilibrium & unforging will prove to be usefull. Though I absolutly detest the short range of magic in 4th edition.
But so far GW has shown a grand total of like 3 interesting spells across all factions.

Every other spell has been basic, minor, buffs.
And on a slann, one of the most powerfull wizards in the entire universe, I'd expect something more interesting than "give your allies +1 to cast".
Or at the very least; show us an actually exciting combo using that relativly boring buff.

Very simply put; what they've shown us is that a slann can get a +3 to cast. Which is great and all, but what's really the point of that +3? All they've shown is spells with a casting value of 6, so why would we care about that +3? Would it really kill them to show a combo that actually utilizes that +3 in a meaningfull way to do something cool?

Butchered melee profile is also a misnomer. new profile does an average of less than a single damage on any relevant profile assuming AoA on both, and thats without accounting for the much better bracketing on the new model.

Oldblood riding a carno with a pointy stick:
5/3+/3+/-1/2 charge +1 damage

EoTG:
6/4+/2+/-1/2 charge +1 damage.

The oldblood nearly has an equivalent profile without taking into account his THE FREAKING CARNOSAUR....
Please explain how the EoTG melee profile is acceptable.

You seem to just blanket over like 99% of the relevant context to be more hyperbolic in your judgement.

In terms of power, most of the stuff shown is more or less fine.
My main complaint is that the vast majority of what's revealed is just kind of boring or obviously flawed.
We're in 4th edition why do we still get stuff like terradons, where there's a blantant flaw in its core design? Or Tzeentch's fire, which is thematicly completly undermined by the rule of one? Or wizards like the Slann without any fun or interesting spells to go with them? You'd think GW would've learned from their mistakes by now.

 

[Putzfrau]

The point is that Terradons are a skirmishing troop without the ability to actually skirmish, because they have a glaringly obvious hole in their core design. Which is lame...

"to you" seems like the generic response to most of this. You have these very firm, sweeping assumptions about what things should be without really taking into context of what they are or have been.

Terradons have existed this way for, and i mean this literally, ever. They've never had run and and shoot. They've always been a unit that shocks you with their unique thing, dropping rocks. This continues to carry that forward. The fact you don't like that archetype and feel really strongly it should be different doesn't actually make them an inherently flawed unit. It makes them a different unit than what you want them to be.

I could largely say the same thing for spellcasting.

Like, if the vibe isn't for you its not for you. but that would be like me complaining that marrio doesnt have enough guns and jumping on things is "boring."

Spellcasting for the entirety of AOS has been incremental buffs to things. They found out in 8th edition fantasy that really, really powerful spell casting was simple put, game breaking. So they don't do that and haven't done that literally since the game has come out. These spells are in line with what you should have been expecting the entire time. Also, we care about casting on +3 because, surprise, unbinding exists. I just don't feel like this context should be something that needs to be explained. A single slann also can't be at +3, you'd n eed two (assuming astro doesnt also give +1). The spell effects OTHER wizards, just like it has in our last 2 books.

I'm also not super upset a large reptilian cow has roughly the same hitting power to a generational combat super soldier with the spear of destiny. That more or less tracks to me.

Also, old summoning doesnt exist. So, not sure why i'm comparing anything to old summoning. No one gets summoning. Our old summoning also wasn't 100% tied to the slann /shrug. got points for spell casts from any wizard and from every wizard. Could summon off every node. Had literally 0 to do with the slann, altho it was obviously pretty good at getting you extra points.

In comparison to similar effects other armies get, its super, super good. Because like i stated, it "costs" nothing. No CP. No battle trait. No once per game. its just a free, once per turn roll you get to make. Thats very, very good. It's also not something "most armies" are getting. Theres a huge chunk of armies that haven't gotten a mechanic like this at all, especially ones that didn't already have something similar in 3.

I genuinely dont know how much aos you are actively playing, but if you are actively playing and enjoying aos, this is generally pretty good stuff. If you're not actively playing aos and are waiting for it to become whatever game you're imagining it should be, then ya. I'm not surprised you're disappointed honestly.

TLDR: 4.0 is a fine tuning of 3. If you didn't like 3, which it seems like you didnt, and the reasons you didn't like it aren't associated with rules minutia (which they are largely fixing) you're probably not going to like 4... especially before literally any of the army books come out. Which are, ya know, usually the thing that adds a decent amount of depth to any specific army.

Final edit, don't mean to really dig into you that hard, but i think people enjoying aos now have every right to be excited for what is looking like a more finely tuned version of the game they already enjoy.

And i say that as someone who played over 150 aos games in 2023 (gearing up to be the same this year), from casual games with friends to performing well at GTs. I'm excited for the new edition, and i hope other people are as well.