8th Ed. 3200 SoM List

[Yakhunter]

Hey guys, looking for critiques on my SoM list for my upcoming game. We're playing 3200 points as that gives you the 800 extra points you need to field any monster with whatever gear setup you want in the new book (lvl 4 Emperor Dragons and Exalted Demons all come in just under 800 points). I could be going up against Ogres, Beastmen or Skaven.

Here's my current list:

Lords
General Slann Mage-Priest w/ Cupped Hands, Mystery (Light), Higher State, Becalming, Rumination.
He's the main man, should be able to survive all comers short of the crazy, decked out lords w/ the magical attacks. Light gives me the buffs and an extra 2d6 wounds against summoned units on the board.

Oldblood w/ Cold One, Armour of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Other Trickster's Shard, Dawnstar Sword.
The unit and wizard crusher, 1+ rerollable armor, 4+ ward, 10 attacks that start the game auto-hitting and wounding and makes you reroll your ward saves.

Heroes
Lvl 2 Skink Priest w/ Cloak of Feathers, Dispel Scroll
Fly him around to duel wizards off towers or give my Slann an extra 24 inches of reach to blow up summoned critters.

Scar Vet w/ Sword of Strife, Ironcurse Icon, LA, Shield, Windcatcher's Prism.
Gives my Saurus Unit some oomph and a random buff every round.

Skink Chief w/ Steg Warspear on Ancient Steg.
Charge in and hope for the best.

Skink Chief BSB w/ Skavenpelt Banner, LA, Shield.
He'll be plopped on the side of my Saurus unit for the frenzy and the chance for hatred against the Skaven if they show up (mainly want the frenzy). With the Saurus in horde formation unless I get flanked he should be able to avoid combat.

Core
40x Saurus Warriors w/ FC
Will be in horde formation.

30x Skinks w/ 3 Krox and FC
Saurus Flank Protector.

10x Skink Skirmishers w/ Jav Shield

Special
7x Chameleon Skinks
8x Chameleon Skinks

9x Cold One Cav w/ Banner of Eternal Flame, FC
Monster hunters and OB protector.

Rare
1x Salamander w/ xtra handler
1x Salamander w/ xtra handler
1x Salamander w/ xtra handler

Monsters and Magic Items
As I've already posted: Windcatcher Prism and Dawnstar Sword.

Lvl 1 Llamasu w/ Lore of Fire he will be slapped on my first fulcrum with the Slann. Negating magic items and 2+ Ward against magic makes him hard to topple.

Lvl 3 Zoat w/ Lore of Life. Probably will throw him into the first forest I can for the buffs he gets and protect him with either the skinks or my skrox depending on how my Saurus Warrior unit looks to be holding up.

 

[Taipan]

Lords

General Slann Mage-Priest w/ Cupped Hands, Mystery (Light), Higher State, Becalming, Rumination.
He's the main man, should be able to survive all comers short of the crazy, decked out lords w/ the magical attacks. Light gives me the buffs and an extra 2d6 wounds against summoned units on the board.

Cupped Hands is always a good choice, especially with the insane miscast table for Cataclysm spells. Why Lore of Light dude? Summoning is going to be a problem, but unless you're letting him get Equilibrium or Dominance, he can't bring on powerful units (75 isn't a big budget at 'Presence'). I'd seriously consider either Lore of Shadow (check out the Dominance spell and tell me your jaw doesn't drop to the floor) or the Lore of Metal (it's Presence spell is a 2+ ward, Equilibrium is auto-wounds and ignore armour, and Dominance is a modified Purple Sun that nukes on a 3+, 5+ if you're character/monster). Light has some nice buffs, but it's very combat reliant (ie you're already getting charged by that point). Metal and Shadow do nasty things at range, and their buffs/hexes are IMO superior to Light's spells.

With the Disciplines, you should consider what is going to be of most benefit. 'Higher State' is nice but if he's camping a Fulcrum, they'll probably send a hero/monster with magical attacks anyway to eat him (not to mention actual spells don't care about it). 'Becalming' is pretty good, but the range is an issue (enemy Fulcrums are going to be out of range to affect with it). 'Rumination' is a good choice, wish I could afford it in my Double Slann list. I'd highly recommend 'Unfathomable Presence', for an effective 2+ ward against spells even if you're blown off your Fulcrum. As an added bonus, if you take any Temple Guard, they get 4+ ward against wounds from magic.

Seeing as you have the points for some additional gear (assuming you drop some Disciplines), I'd highly recommend Cube of Darkness. With all the powerful RIP vortexes and buffs/hexes going off, having a shut-down scroll to not only block one awesome spell, but then remove all RIP on a 4+ is pretty handy.

Oldblood w/ Cold One, Armour of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Other Trickster's Shard, Dawnstar Sword.
The unit and wizard crusher, 1+ rerollable armor, 4+ ward, 10 attacks that start the game auto-hitting and wounding and makes you reroll your ward saves.

Very nasty man. Stupidity will screw you from time to time, but nonetheless he's a beast to take on in combat.

Lvl 2 Skink Priest w/ Cloak of Feathers, Dispel Scroll
Fly him around to duel wizards off towers or give my Slann an extra 24 inches of reach to blow up summoned critters.

He's going to die very quickly though, which is a bit of a pain. Also, good luck trying to knock Level 3's or 4's off a Fulcrum (assuming they don't just dispel your 'Duel' attempt in the first place). Have you considered an EOTG? It's a major investment, but the Gungan shield come in pretty handy when you camp a Fulcrum/Saurus battleline. Considering how good a support Wizard he is (srsly, 'Fantastic Foresight' is easy to cast and will make your casting and dispels extremely reliable), it's a bit of a waste to just throw him at enemy lines. Fast movers or ranged units will just eat him.

Scar Vet w/ Sword of Strife, Ironcurse Icon, LA, Shield, Windcatcher's Prism.
Gives my Saurus Unit some oomph and a random buff every round.

Why no Sword of Hornet/Swift Striking? Ironcurse Icon is at least cheap, but don't expect much from it. Windcatcher Prism is nice.

Skink Chief w/ Steg Warspear on Ancient Steg.
Charge in and hope for the best.

Not really a winning strategy with Stegs. You can get a cheap one with your Bound Monsters anyway, so you don't have to waste points on a Skink Chief.

Skink Chief BSB w/ Skavenpelt Banner, LA, Shield.
He'll be plopped on the side of my Saurus unit for the frenzy and the chance for hatred against the Skaven if they show up (mainly want the frenzy). With the Saurus in horde formation unless I get flanked he should be able to avoid combat.

Exceptionally easy to assassinate if they charge that side of the unit (he still has to be in the front rank remember). Not to mention you don't want your BSB wiped out that easily (dunno why you don't just put it on your Slann). Skavenpelt Banner...Frenzy is nice, but it's a very expensive way to go about it. If you want Frenzied Saurus then a Cold One pack from Bound Monsters is cheaper and faster moving (at the price of shields and Cold-Blooded/high Leadership).

40x Saurus Warriors w/ FC
Will be in horde formation.

Nice, but I'm wondering why you don't split them into two units (you have two Fulcrums to defend after all). Two units are harder to get rid of and can defend more ground.

30x Skinks w/ 3 Krox and FC
Saurus Flank Protector.

More Saurus would probably be a better flank protector, TBH. Skinks in combat aren't going to fair well, especially against the spells and monsters that SoM will see being used. Krox hit hard but are very slow, and once they die your Skinks are screwed. More Saurus do consistent damage, end up being cheaper and still bring 20-30 bodies to the field.

10x Skink Skirmishers w/ Jav Shield

Why bother with shield+javelin? Blowpipes pump out more shots, and these guys crumble in combat even faster than the giant block you're using for flank protection.

7x Chameleon Skinks
8x Chameleon Skinks

Warmachine/wizard snipers I assume. Decent choice, I only take one unit but two will gurantee a cannon/catapult out of action.

Lvl 1 Llamasu w/ Lore of Fire he will be slapped on my first fulcrum with the Slann. Negating magic items and 2+ Ward against magic makes him hard to topple.

He's a decent choice, mostly going to be dakka'ing the enemy with the 'Presence' spell. Level 1 means he's easy to 'Duel' off a Fulcrum though, and he's pretty much useless for dispelling. Being a Chaos beast he's a bit of an oddity in a Lizardmen force as well. I prefer the Zoat but thats just me.

Lvl 3 Zoat w/ Lore of Life. Probably will throw him into the first forest I can for the buffs he gets and protect him with either the skinks or my skrox depending on how my Saurus Warrior unit looks to be holding up.

I would definitely shell out the points for the upgrade to Level 4, because you need him to get 'Throne' or 'Dwellers' as a minimum. Why not just chuck him up on a Fulcrum?

 

[Yakhunter]

Thanks for the help!

To your points,

Putting the BSB on my Slann won't be too helpful as I plan on having him on a fulcrum which limits his mobility. By slapping the frenzy banner on the Skink it give me at least one round of massive killing potential with the horde of saurus. On my turns I can swap him to whatever side best protects him from a flank attack.

I am iffy on slapping Higher State on the Slann, but I figure it minimizes what can out and out kill him. I have seen a lot of sabretusk units being used at my location to eke out scout killing blows in early rounds on wizards. As to becalming, as I get to place two of the towers myself and the minimum distance is 18 inches from another tower, I should be able to have a caster in his range easily.

The Lamassu and Zoat are at their levels as it's the only way I can fit them in the 800 points and still keep those two magic items, I could take other monsters but this gives me access to 4 lores and lots of options, being of a lower level when on a fulcrum only means my opponent gets +1 to the duel roll and the Lamassu makes up for it with a good leadership score.

By putting Lore of Light on the SLann, not only does he have nasty damage against summoned monsters, but being able to slap ASF and I10 and provide essentially a 4+ ward against artillery fire to my units cannot be overlooked. Not to mention when Light is in ascendance (which I will be trying for often) I get to have that horde unit of Saurus to automatically have ASF and I10 so no need for SoH on my Scar Vet.

Skrox are better against monsters than Saurus Warriors. Most monsters are strength 6+ which means they are wounding on 2s anyway, so having a unit with strength 6 hits mixed in that cannot be stomped (according to the new FAQ) puts Skrox in a good place to fend off monsters and their higher speed makes a great flank protector. And Jav/Shield Skink Skirmishers never have to worry about hitting on 7s, in a forest they are steadfast, I might actually drop a salamander and take 10 more. I have always gotten my points out of these guys.

I should make room for cube of darkness, I agree it is worth far more in SoM than in regular games, I just love having the Steg w/warspear even though it can be very hit or miss and I'd be better off with another Scar Vet.

 

[Taipan]

Putting the BSB on my Slann won't be too helpful as I plan on having him on a fulcrum which limits his mobility. By slapping the frenzy banner on the Skink it give me at least one round of massive killing potential with the horde of saurus. On my turns I can swap him to whatever side best protects him from a flank attack.

Ah ok. I'm still hesitant about putting such a linchpin to the army (Cold-Blooded means we're not as reliant as other armies, but still) on such a fragile model. Even a Scar-Vet would be a safer bet (you'd have to forgo magical gear, but he'd be tougher and at least somewhat dangerous in combat with a great weapon). If you can make it work, more power to you man.

I am iffy on slapping Higher State on the Slann, but I figure it minimizes what can out and out kill him. I have seen a lot of sabretusk units being used at my location to eke out scout killing blows in early rounds on wizards. As to becalming, as I get to place two of the towers myself and the minimum distance is 18 inches from another tower, I should be able to have a caster in his range easily.

An easier way of shielding your Slann from assassins is a unit of Temple Guard. They'd fufill the same role as your horde of Saurus are doing (big unit of close-combat monsters), but the Slann would be much harder to get to. In the context of your army, just place your units so he can't charge the Fulcrum.

The Lamassu and Zoat are at their levels as it's the only way I can fit them in the 800 points and still keep those two magic items, I could take other monsters but this gives me access to 4 lores and lots of options, being of a lower level when on a fulcrum only means my opponent gets +1 to the duel roll and the Lamassu makes up for it with a good leadership score.

Fair enough. I face the same dilemmas with my SoM list writing. Given the importance of Lore of Life to Lizardmen (it provides so many buffs, plus a very nasty nuke), getting the spells you want ('Dwellers' and 'Throne' are must-haves) and casting reliably is important. I run Double Slann though so my need for the Lammasu is lower.

By putting Lore of Light on the SLann, not only does he have nasty damage against summoned monsters, but being able to slap ASF and I10 and provide essentially a 4+ ward against artillery fire to my units cannot be overlooked. Not to mention when Light is in ascendance (which I will be trying for often) I get to have that horde unit of Saurus to automatically have ASF and I10 so no need for SoH on my Scar Vet.

Thats all true, and it's a Lore I considered too. The issue is though that outside of close-combat, Lizardmen are highly reliant on their Slann to provide the magical artillery to support the army. Also, you cannot rely on the Windcharm, its a random item by it's very nature. Sword of the Hornet is always 'turned on'

Skrox are better against monsters than Saurus Warriors. Most monsters are strength 6+ which means they are wounding on 2s anyway, so having a unit with strength 6 hits mixed in that cannot be stomped (according to the new FAQ) puts Skrox in a good place to fend off monsters and their higher speed makes a great flank protector. And Jav/Shield Skink Skirmishers never have to worry about hitting on 7s, in a forest they are steadfast, I might actually drop a salamander and take 10 more. I have always gotten my points out of these guys.

Except they ASL, and the unit is still very fragile. Once the Krox die (which they will, you've only got a couple of them), the whole unit will crumble.
Steadfast in a forest would be good, if Javelin Skinks were at all good at close-combat. Blowpipes can be modified to never hit, but they don't shoot infantry, they shoot big things with no/crappy armour. They're also cheap enough to not care if they die, because you have 2-3 more squads to call upon.

I just see them getting ganked too easily, and once you lose one or the other, you've got holes opening up in your battleline you can't plug. MSU Skink blowpipes work because you can afford to lose them, so long as they delay enemy assaults long enough to reposition your actual close-combat units (Saurus, Temple Guard, Cold One Cavalry, Stegs to some extent). You leverage the worthlessness of Skinks in combat (T2, pathetic Leadership etc) by forcing the enemy to waste time and energy removing them, while making the most of the one thing Skinks do well (blast a million darts into big monsters, laugh as they fall over).

I should make room for cube of darkness, I agree it is worth far more in SoM than in regular games, I just love having the Steg w/warspear even though it can be very hit or miss and I'd be better off with another Scar Vet.

Like I said, you're paying a lot (it chews up points allocated to heroes) for something you can buy in Special or Rare, or even with your Bound Monsters points. For a similiar investment, an EOTG does so much more for your army. It's still an Ancient Steg (and thus capable of breaking weak infantry singlehandedly), but you get a well-protected Skink Priest (which means more magical gear), and a Gungan shield to drop onto your infantry (which helps your Skinks survive enemy attention, although not by much).

Cube is going to be a pretty popular choice I think, because so many Cataclysm spells are RIP, and with the expanded magic pool you'll be even more hard-pressed to dispel the important stuff.