8th Ed. 2k vs WoC

[Ixt]

Lords:

Slann Mage-Priest
- WD, RoEE, BC, SoS, Power Stone, BSB

Heroes:

Skink Priest
- Heavens, Dispel Scroll

Saurus Scae-Veteran
- Cold One, GW, Armor of Fortune

Saurus Scar-Veteran
- Cold One, GW, Armor of Destiny

Saurus Scar-Veteran
- Cold one, Halberd, Dragonhelm, Charmed Shield

Special:

Bastiladon
- Solar Engine

Stegadon
- Sharpened Horns

Rare:

Salamander
- Extra Handler

Salamander
- Extra Handler

Core:

11 Skink Skirmishers

11 Skink Skirmishers

11 Skink Skirmishers

11 Skink Skirmishers

18 Skink Cohorts
Poisoned Attacks
Kroxigor
Musician
Standard Bearer

* * * *

I'm expecting to face...

Fully kitted flying Nurgle DP Wizard

2 Gorebeast Chariots

4 Skullcrushers of Khorne

24 Nurgle Chaos Warriors w/ Halberds

with 1 of the 3 following variations...

2 Chimeras & 6 add'l Warriors, or

6-8 Chaos Knights & 2 packs of 6-8 Hounds, or

a Hell Cannon and some other stuff.

* * * *

Some notes:

- The Cohort is there because they have performed very well against every monster mash I've played against to date. They are routine showstoppers!

- The young Stegadon has consistently killed Chimeras on the charge whenever the Bastiladon has been within 6". I'd prefer not to drop the Stegadon/the tandem, but I'm open to suggestions.

- This is the first ultra-cheese list that I've run. My opponent brings cheese all the time, shamelessly shoves it across the board, and even my most victorious all-comers list has never even come close to a draw... so, with the advice of Lustria, I'm now bringing this.

Please dissect!

 

[Stonecutter]

Biggest problem I see is where is the slaan going to hide out? Between the DP and potential chimera, it would be very hard to avoid combat very early on and there is nothing in the list that would provide a useful bunker. For the SVs, the last one is an illegal build since he has two magic armours. Also, I would consider changing out the gear on one of the SVs to go with GW, Cold one, dawnstone, OTS & dragon helm - 1+ re-rollable is better than a 5+ ward IMHO.

WRT the skrox, I am unsure how they are routinely showstoppers vs monsters except those that have no saves of any kind (i.e. giants). While they start combat with good static resolution, a savvy player will target the krox in combat to kill them before they can strike and then thunderstomp the rest of the unit for free combat res. If a chimera hits the unit, it will add a breath weapon to its 6+d3 x S6 attacks so there might not be a single krox left to attack. Since the chimera is likely to also have regeneration, it will have 4+/4+ saves and even skink poison from shooting & CC will be nerfed.

 

[Ixt]

"Biggest problem I see is where is the slaan going to hide out? Between the DP and potential chimera, it would be very hard to avoid combat very early on and there is nothing in the list that would provide a useful bunker."

Figured Cohorts or Skirms, which I'll address in a moment. In the meantime, what would you recommend?

"For the SVs, the last one is an illegal build since he has two magic armours. Also, I would consider changing out the gear on one of the SVs to go with GW, Cold one, dawnstone, OTS & dragon helm - 1+ re-rollable is better than a 5+ ward IMHO."

I thought that Magic Armour only replaced mundane equivalents, and that you can't duplicate slots. So, can't have two sets of armour, can't have two shields, but you can have one nagic suit and one magic shield, right?

Helm has no equiv., and the charmed shield would replace a normal shield? That was never clear to me, though.

If it's illegal, I'll try to move some stuff around.

"WRT"

??

"the skrox, I am unsure how they are routinely showstoppers vs monsters except those that have no saves of any kind (i.e. giants). While they start combat with good static resolution, a savvy player will target the krox in combat to kill them before they can strike and then thunderstomp the rest of the unit for free combat res. If a chimera hits the unit, it will add a breath weapon to its 6+d3 x S6 attacks so there might not be a single krox left to attack. Since the chimera is likely to also have regeneration, it will have 4+/4+ saves and even skink poison from shooting & CC will be nerfed."

It seems that for everything said, it applies equally to our other CC choices - this is the most inexpensive of those choices. I've held up monsters (including his DP) for many turns, Krox or not - with one monster charging, it seems highly unlikely to both kill the Krox AND deny the skinks Steadfast (reducing them to less than 5x2). In your scenario, there would still be 12 skinks left in a perfect round of combat, no?

Chims' breath is, of course, a problem. The idea is to countercharge with the Steg in the face of that scenario to cut my losses. Seems like a decent trade.

I figure the Slann would hang out in a Skirm unit nearby, or in the Cohort itself. It's pointless to theoryhammer, though - this has never been an issue in all of our battles.

With a monster tied up, a Scar Vet should have no trouble sweepibg in and either killing it a round or two. Hence, showstopper.

What would you replace them with?

 

[Stonecutter]

A number of items so I will address them sequentially:

1) WRT - with respect to

2) Slaan hideout - the slaan's footprint does not fit any of the units (see page 98) and hence he would always have to be placed at the front and to one side of any unit, even skirmishers, during combat. This means if the DP flies in and challenges, the slaan cannot refuse as he has no where to go. If the slaan is parked in skirmishers, keep the unit where it cannot be charged (i.e. behind other units, a building, etc.). The slaan can cast through the skink priest for LOS so this resolves some of the issues. Running the slaan solo might be even better as he could hide much more effectively. Just keep another infantry unit within 3" to give him the additional 4+ "look out, sir" roll (pg. 97).

3) Magic items - one of each type (i.e. arcane, armour, weapon, etc.). See "balance of power" on page 172.

4) Skrox vs Saurus vs massive skink cohort (i.e. convert krox points to more skinks). Against S6+ enemies, it might as well be skinks dying as saurus but anything less than that allows the T4 and 4+/6+ of the saurus to come into play along with the 2 x S4 attacks each. If the intent of the unit is to simply remain steadfast until steggie can countercharge for the win, then 32 skinks with poison (or 45 without) might be better - just keep the slaan within 12" for LD.

5) Alternatives - it might be worth it to replace basillydon & a SV with a 2nd steggie (perhaps ancient, if available). When fighting warriors with I5+, the +1I generally doesn't mean too much for lizzies and there will already be a lot of demand for power dice as it is (slaan, skink priest & a basillydon).

6) Magic tweaks - if 5) above is done, then enough points will be left over for some minor changes. The slaan could replace the RoEE with HC & channeling staff to grant an average of one extra die each turn both offensively and defensively (i.e. 3 dice/turn channeling on 5+ each). Furthermore, 15 points of LD banner for LD 10 is always a nice upgrade for the slaan so that he can keep even non-stubborn units from breaking. For the priest, I think beasts would be a better choice so that wyssan's can be spammed. +1S/+1T should make a bigger impact than -1 to hit in CC and it can even be cast on skinks to make their shooting S4 poison not to mention boosting steggie(s) impact hits/stomps.

A lot to digest so hopefully at least some of it will be useful.

 

[Ixt]

A lot to digest so hopefully at least some of it will be useful.

Pretty good advice, man - thanks much.

I'll revise so that the list is a decent middle-ground between my own playstyle & peak efficiency.

Edit: doublepost, sorry. No offense or anything but this site is very unfriendly for mobile users, mods.

 

[n810]

If you go into the board preferences, you can swap out for an alternate layout for Moblue users.

 

[Pinktaco]

Salamander aint gonna do sh1t against those bad boys. Their only target is a unit of T4 models with (3)4+ armour save on 25mm bases. I just highly doubt they'll be worth it.

The bastiladon also seems misplaced.

tbh I think wandering delbieration can do well against chaos. Boosted Shems will hit the demons prince at S6 2D6. Searing doom is great as well against chaos, spirit leech good against low Ld models and fire ball is.. well it's there.

Miasma can help out your cowboys, same with iceshard (can lower Ld, To Hit) and wyssans can easily boost your cowboys to S5/8 and T6. Yeah that's nasty. Earth blood might *seem* useless, but you can give back wounds to your units/cowboys.

You don't need the bound spell from the bast because you already have 3 flaming spells (with WD).

Tbh I'm not super sure what to suggest otherwise. Everything we have they can do better so be mobile, redirect and hit where you can.

 

[Ixt]

Salamander aint gonna do sh1t against those bad boys.

Hmm...

Drop Bastiladon + Salamanders & pick up TG, or Steg?

Could even knock the cheapo/illegal Scar Vet off of his Cold One and have him footslog with these TG.

 

[Ixt]

If you go into the board preferences, you can swap out for an alternate layout for Moblue users.

Thanks, man! Much better!

 

[Stonecutter]

The sallies should be kept as they are one of the few ways of "safely" inflicting wounds on the hoard of nurgle warriors - much safer than tossing anything into combat against them. On average, a template attack on a hoard will hit ~18 models if fired from the flank, wound 9 and 4-5 wounds will make it through. Multiply x 2 sallies and that is 1/3 of the unit dying each turn. Best of all, it causes an auto panic check if even one wound makes it through and WoC are only LD8 - hit them with iceshard during the magic phase and the unit is then testing on LD 7. Even a couple rounds of shooting can cut the unit down to a manageable size for a steg & cowboy combo charge.

As for the DP, you can expect to deal with a 1+ AS and a 2+ ward vs flaming (due to dragonhelm or dragongem) so both shem's burning gaze and searing doom aren't likely to do much. I think the original plan of tarpitting the DP and then hitting him with a wyssan's buffed steggie (preferably an ancient for S7) is the best bet for taking him out. Spirit leech can do it as well but you have to be lucky as the DP is LD 9.

 

[Ixt]

The sallies should be kept as they are one of the few ways of "safely" inflicting wounds on the hoard of nurgle warriors - much safer than tossing anything into combat against them. On average, a template attack on a hoard will hit ~18 models if fired from the flank, wound 9 and 4-5 wounds will make it through. Multiply x 2 sallies and that is 1/3 of the unit dying each turn. Best of all, it causes an auto panic check if even one wound makes it through and WoC are only LD8 - hit them with iceshard during the magic phase and the unit is then testing on LD 7. Even a couple rounds of shooting can cut the unit down to a manageable size for a steg & cowboy combo charge.

As for the DP, you can expect to deal with a 1+ AS and a 2+ ward vs flaming (due to dragonhelm or dragongem) so both shem's burning gaze and searing doom aren't likely to do much. I think the original plan of tarpitting the DP and then hitting him with a wyssan's buffed steggie (preferably an ancient for S7) is the best bet for taking him out. Spirit leech can do it as well but you have to be lucky as the DP is LD 9.

This is part of the reason why I'd included double-Iceshard & Sallies, actually.

Inflicting auto-panic on Warriors at -1/-2 Ld is menacing, even if they don't manage many kills. The second Sallie is basically there to ensure constant panic checks.

If the Warriors don't run away, they deal with -1/-2 movement...

4" march! Hail Chaos!! xD

Or -2 to Hit in a combat... that's nothing to scoff at.

I've always preferred it to Wyssan's, I guess.

I like having a Bastiladon around for general utility though: puts the Stegadon at I3. That's a step higher than the Chim (its primary target), and keeps me from casting Melkoth's/saves Melkoth's for a better target.

Anyway, if I keep the Sallies & drop the Bastiladon/illegal Vet, that leaves me with 126 Slaves...

Would it be wise to pick up a small squad of TG for the Slann?

14-strong, Full Command w/ Banner of Swiftness.

I don't see them surviving combat very long without Earth Blood's 5+ Regen...

I usually run my Slann solo w/ Skinks nearby, or in a Skink unit (on the rare occasion).

'Slann Solo' has worked best, though.

So, maybe another Stegadon? Possibly Ancient?

Or a suicide Skink Chief with the Egg to join up with the Cohort, an extra Sallie, and Beasts priest w/ Feathers?

The egg is random as hell, I know, but the odds of it doing well are pretty decent. 50% chance of 2d6 S5 hits... I'll take it.

Not great for a DP, but not bad for anything else (Chariots esp.).

All of that comes from the points behind removing the Bastiladon & Scar Vet. Stuff I'll be thinking about, I guess.

 

[Ixt]

I figure I'll drop the illegal Scar Vet, and use his 42 of his 51 Slaves to buy a third Salamander w/ an extra handler (1x2 Sals + a solo Sal).

Seems that with such small-sized squads, these fall kinda low in charge-target priority: the DP will, inevitably, chase the Slann. The Chims will want to use breath weapons on the skinks.

It could even allow me to use them as end-game redirectors (they may flee, right?).

Actually, with three Salamanders @ S5/I4 Flaming Attacks, I could [mostly] safely take down a Chim or two (appropriate situation provided).

This frees up the Stegadon to target and/or outright end a Chariot, which I'm much happier about.

The only thing, now, is figuring out where to spend the remaining 9 Slaves... xD

Thank you guys for the advice.

I will likely keep the Bastiladon around.

On the one hand, I just love his utility, and he really has performed well in my other games against WoC.

On the other, I'm just not sure where to efficiently send his 75 Slaves in this list.