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8th Ed. 2K vs orcs and goblins

Quinras
Cold One

Quinras

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Greetings fellow skinks and other reptillian life forms,

I have made a list for a battle I'm going to play in a weeks time, and would like to know what you think of it.

29 skinks,
*musician,
*standard bearer,
*swiftstride(sorry, forgot the name, magic item from lizardmen armybook)
2 kroxigors
1 skink chief
*bsb,
*shield,
*light armour,
*2 magic resistance (universal magic item, forgot the name)

10 skink skirmishers,
*lustrian javalin

28 temple guard,
*full command

slann mage priest
*focus,
*harmonic,
*becalming,
*unfathomable
*channeling staff,

1 bastiladon,
*solar engine

ancient stegadon,

2 salamanders

3 ripperdactyls


The idea is simple. I will use magic and shooting to blast my enemy to kingdome come and protect my skink cohort and temple guard. They will charge if they can, with the bastiladon to boost their initiative. Rippers will be used to hunt warmachines.

My opponent is an orc and goblin player. I have been told what he likes to play, but I do not want to make an anti list. I can provide his favorite units, but would first like to know what you think of the list without knowing them.



Old Ones watch over you.
 
Firstly - Do you have enough CORE there?
Secondly - If your skink cheif has the swiftstride banner he wont be able to take the magic item for 2 resistance?


Orcs are my main army... sooooo i would say:

1) If hes got orcs... magic them before they get there. (Your temple gaurd will go toe to toe with near enough all of his men so dont worry)
2) Goblins - Make them take terror checks.
3) I cant imagine what he would take where you will need the kroxigors to do the damage. I would say potentially getting some saurus involved?
4) Rippers will be great for baiting out fanatics. But remember, outside the BSB / Slann for the leadership... you could end up charging where you dont want to?

I ran alot of goblins, mangler squigs in my O+G army. Seeing big blocks (TG + Slann) I used to love!

In game... if he deploys Mangler squigs... get rid of them ASAP!

If you have any direct O+G Questions fire away ill try my best :)
 
Doh, youre right, I do not have enough core. I changed my list because I wanted more temple guard, so I removed 10 skirmishers and a krox. However I forgot to about the core value. As a seasoned 40K player I find this system takes some getting used to.
As for the skink chief, you're right again. Stupid mistake. I made part of the list when I wasn't at home, and forgot to check it. First of all a skink chief can only take 50 points of magic items, but second he is not allowed to take any other items than a magic standard if he is BSB and has a magic standard. I can make my Slann BSB and remove the swiftstride banner. Either that, or take my chances without magic resistance.

But now I need to make a change, because I don't think 20 temple guard is enough. Perhaps loose the steg?

I took the krox to get rid of some big critters, like perhaps an arach or maybe black orcs, which are almost as sure to arrive as manglers. Besides, I am not trying to make a list specifically attuned to fight O&G. Taking some krox with high strength attacks made sence, and I wanted to try them in a skink cohort.

As for the ripper, I don't quite follow. I am still quite new to WFB, sorry. Why would I charge somewhere I don't want if I find myself out of range from either the BSB or the general?
 
Quinras said:
As for the ripper, I don't quite follow. I am still quite new to WFB, sorry. Why would I charge somewhere I don't want if I find myself out of range from either the BSB or the general?
Click to expand...
Rippers have a low Leadership and are subject to Frenzy.
 
Sorry your awnsermade me realize my question was incorrect. I know they are subject to frenzy, which forces them to charge uppon failing a LD check. However as far as I understood, flyers are allowed a free reform after their movement, right? So then I could just take this unit i do not want to charge out of my front arc, right?
 
Aah, yes. You could do that. So your plan is to fly them around "backwards" until you get the unit you want in your sights? It could work. Just remember that a crafty opponent might throw some chaff in their arc on his/her turn just to draw your Rippers out of the picture. No sure what OnG have to accomplish that task however, so you might be ok trying it out.

Also your list looks pretty good. I like the idea with the Swiftstride Skinks. Adding more Krox to their unit could make them even better and will help you hit the 25% min for core. Maybe give them some poison for good measure?
 
Oke then this is what I would like. unfortunately I had to dump the salamanders and the skirmishers now, and I am still 30 pts over. Plus now I have two big units, 2 monsters and a flyer. that's it. maybe a bit to low on 2k?

33 poison skinks musician, banner
5 kroxigors
1 skink chief shield, light armour, 2 magic resistance
1 skink chief bsb, shield, light armour, jaguar banner

25 temple guard full command

slann mage priest focus, harmonic, channeling staff, becalming, unfathomable 435

1 bastiladon solar engine

ancient stegadon

3 ripperdactyls
 
Have any idea what sort of list your O+G is going to run? What lore are you thinking of taking?
 
High magic. I can always reroll them to other spells if I want. Or would you advice another?

I have been told he likes (lots and lots) of squigs, manglers, rocklobba's, spear chucka's, doom divers and black orcs. I would not be surprised if I faced an arachnarok either.

I played a list similar to this last version at 1500 pts. also vs O+G (though another player). He outmanouvered me as he had a list of spider riders, wolf riders and squiggs( plus more, but I don't remember). We said it was my victory because he could not kill my (20 I think) temple guard anymore, though I was not so sure. But our general conclusion was I didn't have enough units to counter his manouverebility.

EDIT:
29 skinks
*full command
5 kroxigors
1 skink chief
*shield, light armour, 2 magic resistance
1 skink chief
bsb, shield, light armour, jaguar banner

11 skink skirmishers

23 temple guard
*full command

slann mage priest
*focus, harmonic, channeling staff, becalming, unfathomable

1 bastiladon
*solar engine

ancient stegadon

3 ripperdactyls
 
I would almost be tempted to pickup another bastilidon. I run 2 nearly every game now. High magic - tempest his shooty stuff. Declare charges every time you can on his wolf/spider riders... leadership 5/6 terror checks!! :) ill see if I can dig my 2400 list out to show you what I run :)
 
I don't think I have enough powerdice for that. The only reason would be to have a backup bastiladon. Desides, I have just assembled (not painted, allas) a steg. So I want to field it xD.

I am interested in your list, though!
 
for those of you interested, here is my list and a short battle report.

lizardmen:
25 saurus warriors spears, full command
20 temple guard full command
slann mage priest focus, harmonic, channeling staff, becalming, unfathomable, bsb
25 skinks musician, banner
2 kroxigors
1 bastiladon solar engine
ancient stegadon
2 salamander extra snack
10 chameleon skinks

I do not know all his upgrades, but his list was something like this:

10 trolls
38 savages
6 wolf riders
arachnarok spider (mister Nasty)
warbos with wizarding hat
shaman
doomdiver
spearchukka
goblin chieftan with BSB
goblin chieftan
30 squiggs with 20 nightgoblins

Battle report:
He started first turn, but aside from moving didn't do much. Gave his savage orcs regenerate with light magic spell, I dispelled the Hand of Mork. Doomdiver failed to wound the bastiladon, Spearchukka missed. The wolf riders tripped on a fence and fled.

My turn was a bit better, my slann killed 4 savages with Tempest, the bastilladon was dispelled. my chameleons shot the trolls and did a wound. The salamanders hit their mark spot on, killed about 8 squiggs and a couple of handlers. Al in all it could have been worse.

turn 2:
In his second turn he moved mr Nasty closer but could not get the charge. The wolf riders found their curage and reformed to face my salamanders. the savages failed their animosity and where forced to stay put. The squiggs wanted to charge my salamanders but found their charge impeded by a shrine. The magic phase was not noteworthy. The doomdiver redirected to my bastiladon but once again failed to wound it. The spearchukka exploded.

In my movement phase I alligned my saurus warriors and temple guard, so that the inevitable charge from the trolls would be taken by both squads, or none. my skinks moved back out of reach of mr Nasty. During the magic phase I managed to cast fiery convocation, which used to light the trolls and kill one. My chameleons shot the doom diver, but one goblin managed to hide and survived. The salamanders once again got nice chunk from the squiggs, allthough one of them was hungry and decided to eat 2 skink handlers.

turn 3:
The magic in turn three was again not noteworthy, he dispelled convocation. His trolls charged my saurus warriors and temple guard, but lost four comrades and fled the scene. Mr nasty found himself out of range and moved closer.

Both the temple guard and saurus warriors lined up to charge the savages. However the slann didn't agree, and cast Walk between Worlds to position them behind the savages. Only the saurus warriors charged, managed to kill a couple but lost over half their numbers. Bolstered by the presence of the Slann they kept their (insane) curage. The skink cohort moved back, yet again out of range from mr Nasty. my salamanders again incinerated some squiggs. The chameleons killed the doom diver.

Turn 4
Mr Nasty was sick of playing cat and mouse so he ran forward with all speed, positioning himself right in front of the skinks. His squiggs charged my salamanders and killed one of the beasts. the savages killed more saurus warriors, and the trolls failed their stupidity test and fled further. He positioned his lonely goblin chieftan between my temple guard and his savages, preventing a rear charge.

blinded by fury the temple guard charged the goblin chieftan, but failed to kill it. However he fled and was struk down, allowing the temple guard to run on into the savages. Left without targets the slann once again cast convocation on the trolls, killing one. Both the steg and the bastiladon charged the savaged, killing a couple. the chameleons rounded back and shot the trolls. Bolstered by the two kroxygor the skinks charged the spider. However mr Nasty didn't care at all and ate the kroxygor before they could do something, and the skinks fled the scene. My salamander got chopped, and the squiggs charged the steg in the flank.


turn 5/6:
mr Nasty charged the skinks, who where forced to flee into the poisened thicket. Not wanting to follow, he redirected and charged the steg and the bastiladon in the rear. From here on it was an all out brawl. I killed the savages, he killed my saurus warriors. At the end of turn 6 the combat was undecided, and he won the game by 200 victory points.


Aftermath:
Kroxygors in skink hordes are (in my perspective) a bad choice. Next time I will take poisoned skinks in horde formation. I would have killed the spider then. The salamanders, though not having earned their points, are awesome. deffinately the unit of the match. The bastiladon, though not having fired once, is also awesome. The extra initiative really saved my *ss against the trolls, as well as the savages. The steg was not very impressive. 4D6 sounds nice, but I think I will take the giant bow next time.

All in all I am very pleased with the result. I lost, yes, but it was a close call. If I had managed to kill the last 2 trolls, I would have won. We had loads of fun.
 
I meet mainly OnG. And this is what I think you should bring.

I don't know if you are playing after some comp system, but since you will run 2k I assume not.

So here is my suggestion.

Slann with channel staff, 2 extra channel dice. If you have the points you could take the save one dispel dice discipline. 8 sig spells or spells from a brb lore would be my choice. Why not fire.

1 skink priest. Dispel scroll. I always pick heaven but if you like beast more, go with that.

1 scarvet to be in the tempelguard unit.

Core - filled up til minimum with skirmishers. 10 each. No champions. Javelins for me. If you prefer blowpipes go with that. Maybe some units of each.

Special - A tempelguard unit with full command. Flaming banner! thats important. Either on the tempelguard or on the slann if bsb. Your opponent might bring trolls and their regeneration save wont work against flaming attacks.

If you want. bring a bastiladon with solar engine.

There is also camo skinks. Units of 5-7 is enough. Personally i never bring a champion.

Rare - Salamanders or a unit of razordon. Haven't played with them much (razordon) but so far i like them.


Be careful if he bring doom divers. They are a pain in the ass… They will kill of monsters quite easily.

Try to circle around his units and keep out of the charge arc with your skinks. They are very good at that.

If you have more questions its just to ask.

/Crillaz

*edit,

:) i just read your last post…you have already played the game.

Hope it went well and that you had fun.
 
Yeah last night. I just finished the battle report. It was great fun, but my list does require some tweeking.

Tell me what you think of my targets/choices.
 
How did his ara kill the kroxigors?? It only has 8 attacks and is hitting on 4s wounding on 3s? (Str 5 I believe?) If so to lose all krox wounds is unlucky.

My stegs I run ancients with engine of the gods. :)

Looks like a fun report my last game was 3k vs ogres. Playing 5k this week vs wood elves :) when im next at my PC ill make a painting thread for an update on the force :D funny enough I dont use Sallys or skinks skirmishers. Never been too keen myself.
 
It was a close game! :)

And it seems like you handled the doom diver very well. A lil luck there as well that he didn't kill your basti.

The arachnarok…I never really know how to handle it in the start of each game. But somehow I always successful in killing it. I use a few units of skirmishers to shoot at it and if necessary magic. The laser on the basti is quite good if you get lucky on the roll.
It looks terrifying with 8 wounds and toughness 6 but sooner or later it goes down. Just start to whittle it down as soon as you can in the game.

Sad that 2 trolls stayed alive. Trolls with their regen can be hard to kill. If you can fool your opponent to move them outside generals 12" bubble stupidity will be a problem for them. Only ld 4 if i remember correctly. Boosted fire balls are perfect or tempelguard with flaming banner.

Fiery convocation i would use on the savages or goblin hordes if he brings them. Too be honest with you i try to stay away from the savages. I usually meet 35 i think or something, extra hw + war boss, shaman with fencers and shrunken head, and a bsb.
I prefer to kill off shaff, spider, war machines and his goblins instead of going into contact with them.
But like I said, fiery is very good even with their 5++ and also your salamanders.

Good luck in next game.

/Crillaz
 
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