AoS 2k KC with New GHB 2022 Rules

[Tyranitar]

Hey all, here's a list I came up with exploring Koatl's Claw now that we've seen the new ghb rules as well as the change to Scaly Skin. I think Koatl's Claw indirectly gained a lot, I'll walk through some of that and some questions I have too.

- Army Faction: Seraphon
- Army Type: Coalesced
- Subfaction: Koatl's Claw

LEADERS

Lord Kroak (430)

Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)
- Celestite Warspear
- Artefacts of Power: Eviscerating Blade
- Mount Traits: Beastmaster

Skink Starpriest (130)
- Spells: Tide of Serpents

Skink Starpriest (130)
- Spells: Hand of Glory

Skink Starseer (145)
- General
- Command Traits: Master of Star Rituals
- Spells: Hand of Glory

BATTLELINE

10x Saurus Guard (230)
5x Saurus Knights (110)
5x Saurus Knights (110)
30x Saurus Warriors (315)
- Celestite Clubs

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Chronomantic Cogs (40)

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

General Thoughts:
-Scaly skin change means saurus units will hopefully play well into the meta if people run bounty hunters units as the Battalion bonus is negated
-saurus guard are potentially worth running in reinforced units now that they fight in two ranks and are galletian vets that are durable/ignore bounty hunter bonus damage, and a larger unit makes Kroak more attractive since he'll have the extra padding
-being able to aggressively advance kroak up the field with the extra guard is nice, hope is to get him in a central position and blast multiple infantry units to force battleshock tests
-saurus knights seem like good candidates for bounty hunters themselves due to high volume of attacks
-30 blob of saurus warriors w/ clubs is worth experimenting with for high damage potential and relatively durable anvil as well. Also galletian vets for missions that care
-starpriests to buff warriors or Knights w/ venom and hand of glory is great. 1 has Tide of Serpents for additional horde control
-starseer for -1 save spell and 3d6 charge on otherwise slow saurus warriors blob to get them where they need to be. Also General because KC command trait is weak with 3e command restrictions. Went +1 cast vs rerolls because cogs already gives rerolls
-scarnosaur to use KC artifact which is very good, and the CA is very good on saurus blob or a knight unit that charges as they get the +1 to hit from KC so don't need AoA anyway. Also roar support if needed with no more hunters battalion
-haven't run numbers but I'm sure 30x saurus charging 3d6 and buffed with starvenom, exploding 6's, rerolling 1's to hit and vs a -1 save target from starseer = tons of damage
-havent thought about battalions but I'd likely go with the Knights in bounty hunters and then decide between the extra models to cap objectives for warriors and guard, or grab an extra artifact

General Questions:
-is this just better as Thunder Lizard with an engine or bastiladon?
-is it worth trying to get in a Skink Priest with zero Skink units to target?
-would it be better cutting something to get the guard to 15?

Let me know what you think!

 

[ProfessorSkink]

I'm going to be trying out this exact list this week, might exchange the Carnosaur for a sunblood and throw in a purple sun for fun. I honestly think our lists at tournaments are going to shift this way, the bonuses from battalions and battle tactics that all focus on GV make saurus the logical choice, since skinks no longer get the tankiness of scaly skin. I've also thought about running this type of list with larger saurus cav blocks for the bounty hunter bonus but I think 30 man saurus units are just too important to have in the current landscape.

As for your general questions:
- I think the reason you might see thunder lizard go down is because there isn't bonuses for monsters in this new GHB. Last season you had several battle tactics that involved monsters, some only achieved by them. So with the focus going to GV I just think it makes more sense to retire the monster mash. The bastiladon is still one of the best if not the best unit we have, so I'm sure you'll still see them at tournaments but they'll be flanked by saurus blocks in the expert conquerors battalion
- Skink priests should only be taken with skinks to buff, the command ability and starstone staff are wasted on anything without the skink keyword. Your only useful skink units are like salamanders stegs and bastiladons so in lists with those he's worth, but he can't do a ton to help the saurus
- I like the idea of 15 saurus guard and 30 wounds to get through before they can hurt kroak, but I tried a game with a list last week that was literally all guard, kroak and slann, with some support heroes and a ton of endless spells. Once the guard die you're out of luck, and they will die if you're sending kroak into combat. With Slann losing scaly skin running Kroak up might not be the strat unless it's low damage hordes, even then volume of attacks could be an issue too. The cogs rework super buffs kroak however, allowing him to reroll a failed cast or miscast is incredible for his viability and ensuring his mortal wounds go off. I think you'll be seeing him a lot more with that spell, but not running up like I was planning on doing with him

Hopefully this helps, I want to keep using monsters but there's just more bonuses for vets now, and skinks don't have the utility they did with the scaly skin change. Saurus may be slow but you're going to want to counter charge anyway, and with the starseer 3d6 charge it's well within the realm of possibility.

 

[Tyranitar]

I'm going to be trying out this exact list this week, might exchange the Carnosaur for a sunblood and throw in a purple sun for fun. I honestly think our lists at tournaments are going to shift this way, the bonuses from battalions and battle tactics that all focus on GV make saurus the logical choice, since skinks no longer get the tankiness of scaly skin. I've also thought about running this type of list with larger saurus cav blocks for the bounty hunter bonus but I think 30 man saurus units are just too important to have in the current landscape.

As for your general questions:
- I think the reason you might see thunder lizard go down is because there isn't bonuses for monsters in this new GHB. Last season you had several battle tactics that involved monsters, some only achieved by them. So with the focus going to GV I just think it makes more sense to retire the monster mash. The bastiladon is still one of the best if not the best unit we have, so I'm sure you'll still see them at tournaments but they'll be flanked by saurus blocks in the expert conquerors battalion
- Skink priests should only be taken with skinks to buff, the command ability and starstone staff are wasted on anything without the skink keyword. Your only useful skink units are like salamanders stegs and bastiladons so in lists with those he's worth, but he can't do a ton to help the saurus
- I like the idea of 15 saurus guard and 30 wounds to get through before they can hurt kroak, but I tried a game with a list last week that was literally all guard, kroak and slann, with some support heroes and a ton of endless spells. Once the guard die you're out of luck, and they will die if you're sending kroak into combat. With Slann losing scaly skin running Kroak up might not be the strat unless it's low damage hordes, even then volume of attacks could be an issue too. The cogs rework super buffs kroak however, allowing him to reroll a failed cast or miscast is incredible for his viability and ensuring his mortal wounds go off. I think you'll be seeing him a lot more with that spell, but not running up like I was planning on doing with him

Hopefully this helps, I want to keep using monsters but there's just more bonuses for vets now, and skinks don't have the utility they did with the scaly skin change. Saurus may be slow but you're going to want to counter charge anyway, and with the starseer 3d6 charge it's well within the realm of possibility.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! I'm on the same page with the skink priest. I know a lot of people consider it auto-include because the value is crazy, but that's also because all of our prior lists had some sort of worthwhile skink unit to buff, generally a basti. So with no targets, they're not worth it even just as a 90 point priest despite the crazy value. We can park one of the skink wizards in the engine to turn it on.

Let me know how your test games with the list go, I'm very interested to hear! I'll be playing a game this Saturday but I'm not sure if it'll be with this list. Since seraphon are top tier, I usually let my friends pick whether they want to play against coalesced or starborne, or possibly even my nighthaunt if they aren't feeling like getting destroyed by lizards

 

[ProfessorSkink]

I mean nighthaunt definitely got some love so you should flex on them regardless of faction lol. But yeah skink priest isn't worth taking unless you have a big block of skinks, sallies, stegs or bastiladons. I usually get about a game in a week so once I get going on the saurus comps I should have a better idea of what's going to work. I want an excuse to use kroak so I'll be using this comp a lot most likely, there's other comps with even more saurus I'm looking at with a regular slann but we'll just need to see. I'll be keeping the forum posted lol

 

[Tyranitar]

I mean nighthaunt definitely got some love so you should flex on them regardless of faction lol. But yeah skink priest isn't worth taking unless you have a big block of skinks, sallies, stegs or bastiladons. I usually get about a game in a week so once I get going on the saurus comps I should have a better idea of what's going to work. I want an excuse to use kroak so I'll be using this comp a lot most likely, there's other comps with even more saurus I'm looking at with a regular slann but we'll just need to see. I'll be keeping the forum posted lol

Yeah, I picked up the nighthaunt awhile ago and happened to get lucky I suppose!

That sounds great, I'm excited to hear more about the saurus lists. Can you @ me when you post about your results? I'm surprised how quiet the list building forum is with all the massive changes