AoS 2K Dracothion’s Tail w/ Oracle (gasp!)

[Alladin the Paladin]

Hey Lustria, just wanted to get an idea about this list. It is not meant to be tournament quality (see Oracle comment in title) but hoping to create something pseudo competitive.

It’s based on models I can currently field (a few by proxy, and assuming I purchase Malign Sorcery).

It’s fairly heavy on the endless spells, which I can pare down for other options, but I don’t have much else to offer, model wise.

I can basically swap stuff out for different endless spells, more/larger skink blobs or more big dinos - I don’t even have the Guard but will proxy my regular warriors (have up to 20 to use) for now.

Thoughts or suggestions welcome!

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- General
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Priest (70)
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (260)
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)

Units
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Aethervoid Pendulum (60)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)
Extra Command Point (50)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Hey Lustria, just wanted to get an idea about this list. It is not meant to be tournament quality (see Oracle comment in title) but hoping to create something pseudo competitive.

It’s based on models I can currently field (a few by proxy, and assuming I purchase Malign Sorcery).

It’s fairly heavy on the endless spells, which I can pare down for other options, but I don’t have much else to offer, model wise.

I can basically swap stuff out for different endless spells, more/larger skink blobs or more big dinos - I don’t even have the Guard but will proxy my regular warriors (have up to 20 to use) for now.

Thoughts or suggestions welcome!

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- General
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Priest (70)
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (260)
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)

Units
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Bound Aethervoid Pendulum (60)
Bound Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)
Extra Command Point (50)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

if your running endless spell spam i would replace the extra command point with bound grave tide or another big blocker this list does not need the CP

 

[Alladin the Paladin]

if your running endless spell spam i would replace the extra command point with bound grave tide or another big blocker this list does not need the CP

Interesting. I was worried more about having *too* many spells (especially since I don’t have a second Slann model) or not the right spells.

I figure the CP would help buff a unit of salamanders turn one to then LoSaT something off the board (guarantee reroll 1s if hand of glory doesn’t go off).

My general plan would be to keep the Oracle up in the sky. Buff salamanders, then LoSaT the Salamanders with the Oracle behind (or possibly in front to block the ensuing charge, depending on circumstances. Either way, they have to then kill both because arcane vassal will ruin their day the following turn, or the salamanders will (along with another buffed unit). It leaves me with not so much up front, but perhaps I can make a wall of endless spells (where the gravetide would come in handy quite well... i see)

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Interesting. I was worried more about having *too* many spells (especially since I don’t have a second Slann model) or not the right spells.

I figure the CP would help buff a unit of salamanders turn one to then LoSaT something off the board (guarantee reroll 1s if hand of glory doesn’t go off).

My general plan would be to keep the Oracle up in the sky. Buff salamanders, then LoSaT the Salamanders with the Oracle behind (or possibly in front to block the ensuing charge, depending on circumstances. Either way, they have to then kill both because arcane vassal will ruin their day the following turn, or the salamanders will (along with another buffed unit). It leaves me with not so much up front, but perhaps I can make a wall of endless spells (where the gravetide would come in handy quite well... i see)

your already looking at 2-3 CP turn one and being able to cast spells from behind a wall of magic is what used to make tzench so good and kroak is better at it

 

[Alladin the Paladin]

your already looking at 2-3 CP turn one and being able to cast spells from behind a wall of magic is what used to make tzench so good and kroak is better at it

Duly noted. Thanks for the tips! My local is accepting call ins and door pickups so I will be getting my malign sorcery soon. Not that I need any more on my backlog....

 

[Grotpunter]

Interesting. I was worried more about having *too* many spells (especially since I don’t have a second Slann model) or not the right spells.

I figure the CP would help buff a unit of salamanders turn one to then LoSaT something off the board (guarantee reroll 1s if hand of glory doesn’t go off).

My general plan would be to keep the Oracle up in the sky. Buff salamanders, then LoSaT the Salamanders with the Oracle behind (or possibly in front to block the ensuing charge, depending on circumstances. Either way, they have to then kill both because arcane vassal will ruin their day the following turn, or the salamanders will (along with another buffed unit). It leaves me with not so much up front, but perhaps I can make a wall of endless spells (where the gravetide would come in handy quite well... i see)

The first thought when I saw the list was too many endless spells compared to the amount of casters, considering each caster can max cast 1 endless spell each per turn. If you keep the Trog in the sky, he wont even be able to cast. Once he is on the table, you will likely want to sacrifice his single spell cast for D3 CCP? The Starpriest's warscroll spell is pretty good ontop of Geminids. But his lore spells are also incredible. Normally my first pick for Skink lore spell is the Hand of Glory, but I guess you have plently of CPs here to spend on stuff. The good part about Hand of Glory though is that it affects all hits, not just shooting, so it is effectively 2, potentially 3 CPs if you are gonna charge with the Sallies.

Realistically you will cast Vortex with Kroak turn 1, maybe Geminids with the Starpriest. Geminids will maybe be dispelled next turn, so now you have (potentially) Geminids + Pendulum + Jaws + Gravetide to cast. Will your Trog be on the table by now? Will your Starpriest forego his lore spell to cast an Endless spell?

I would prefer more casters with a heavy Endless spell list, maybe a normal Slann which you could make the general so you dont "waste" a command trait.

But I think you should consider what your strategy is - What are you aiming to do? What is your list supposed to do? Will you care about CCP at all by sacrifice a spell on Kroak and Trog each turn, or pretty much ignore this mechanic.

You have very few bodies in the list. Since you have a Trog, you likely want to play on being able to cast Kroak's CD almost anywhere on the table through the Trog. That means you effectively remove 3 spells from Kroak. Will you also go for the Stellar Tempest? Then you have 4 out of 5 spells down (assuming Balewind) - Then the question comes if you are gonna care about CCP and sacrifice the last? Keep in mind you cant even cast Endless Spells through the Trog anyways.

The list seems to suggest you want Kroak in the back, casting through the Trog, meanwhile not really caring about gathering CCP, yet your 5th and final spell on Kroak is kinda wasted. If hes so far, I dont know if the Endless Spells have a meaning full range. If you want Kroak forward, what is the purpose of the Trog then?

Just some thoughts/ideas when looking at your list. Im really excited about getting to play a ton of different Starborne lists and have thought about the Trog too.

 

[Alladin the Paladin]

The first thought when I saw the list was too many endless spells compared to the amount of casters, considering each caster can max cast 1 endless spell each per turn. If you keep the Trog in the sky, he wont even be able to cast. Once he is on the table, you will likely want to sacrifice his single spell cast for D3 CCP? The Starpriest's warscroll spell is pretty good ontop of Geminids. But his lore spells are also incredible. Normally my first pick for Skink lore spell is the Hand of Glory, but I guess you have plently of CPs here to spend on stuff. The good part about Hand of Glory though is that it affects all hits, not just shooting, so it is effectively 2, potentially 3 CPs if you are gonna charge with the Sallies.

Realistically you will cast Vortex with Kroak turn 1, maybe Geminids with the Starpriest. Geminids will maybe be dispelled next turn, so now you have (potentially) Geminids + Pendulum + Jaws + Gravetide to cast. Will your Trog be on the table by now? Will your Starpriest forego his lore spell to cast an Endless spell?

I would prefer more casters with a heavy Endless spell list, maybe a normal Slann which you could make the general so you dont "waste" a command trait.

But I think you should consider what your strategy is - What are you aiming to do? What is your list supposed to do? Will you care about CCP at all by sacrifice a spell on Kroak and Trog each turn, or pretty much ignore this mechanic.

You have very few bodies in the list. Since you have a Trog, you likely want to play on being able to cast Kroak's CD almost anywhere on the table through the Trog. That means you effectively remove 3 spells from Kroak. Will you also go for the Stellar Tempest? Then you have 4 out of 5 spells down (assuming Balewind) - Then the question comes if you are gonna care about CCP and sacrifice the last? Keep in mind you cant even cast Endless Spells through the Trog anyways.

The list seems to suggest you want Kroak in the back, casting through the Trog, meanwhile not really caring about gathering CCP, yet your 5th and final spell on Kroak is kinda wasted. If hes so far, I dont know if the Endless Spells have a meaning full range. If you want Kroak forward, what is the purpose of the Trog then?

Just some thoughts/ideas when looking at your list. Im really excited about getting to play a ton of different Starborne lists and have thought about the Trog too.

All good points to consider. The troglodon is not ideal, but I only have 1 Slann model, 1 Starpriest, no Starseer, and 1 model I can use as either a priest or starpriest.

I could bump up my casters to 4 if I go kroak, trog and 2 starpriests. I was likely planning on keeping all my casters on the ground to start so I can cast 3-4 endless spells ( balewind, geminids and a blocking spell). An option could be to make a Starpriest my leader (or even the troglodon) to give him Master of Star rituals. This gives me either an extra cast or solves my priest problem, but then I lose the extra CCP production from Kroak.

Most of the armies I’ve played (or have a chance to play) have a vanguard component that rushes either me or the objectives, and a rearguard that buffs or supports. My plan is to drop salamanders/oracle vassal in the back while protecting the front with spells.

CCP is a mixed bag - I would probably forgo extra CCP for 2 rounds at least, but then if things are going ok start collecting more to refuel priests, or drop skinks for objectives.

It’s not a perfect list but I am without some of the tools I would like. I could remove some spells and command point for another 10 skinks or 5 guard. Removing the trog would help but the only things I can slot in would be another big Dino, a carnasaur, bastiladon or steg of any variety.

 

[Grotpunter]

All good points to consider. The troglodon is not ideal, but I only have 1 Slann model, 1 Starpriest, no Starseer, and 1 model I can use as either a priest or starpriest.

I could bump up my casters to 4 if I go kroak, trog and 2 starpriests. I was likely planning on keeping all my casters on the ground to start so I can cast 3-4 endless spells ( balewind, geminids and a blocking spell). An option could be to make a Starpriest my leader (or even the troglodon) to give him Master of Star rituals. This gives me either an extra cast or solves my priest problem, but then I lose the extra CCP production from Kroak.

Most of the armies I’ve played (or have a chance to play) have a vanguard component that rushes either me or the objectives, and a rearguard that buffs or supports. My plan is to drop salamanders/oracle vassal in the back while protecting the front with spells.

CCP is a mixed bag - I would probably forgo extra CCP for 2 rounds at least, but then if things are going ok start collecting more to refuel priests, or drop skinks for objectives.

It’s not a perfect list but I am without some of the tools I would like. I could remove some spells and command point for another 10 skinks or 5 guard. Removing the trog would help but the only things I can slot in would be another big Dino, a carnasaur, bastiladon or steg of any variety.

Well I assumed the whole point of the list was to run a Trog, otherwise it would just be another #NoTrogList

I think you should sit down and think about what you want the list to do, then try to focus on that element. I often see lists try to do everything and spread themself too thin, instead of focusing on what the specific army/subfaction is good at, and then double down on it to really squeeze out every benefit of synergy you can.

Personally I dont see the huge benefit of a Starpriest in this list. Sure he helps generating CPs, but his Serpent Staff is kinda wasted in this list. On a block of 3 Salamanders, it'll only add 1 extra damage on average, if it has +1 to hit from the Priest, it is around 1,5 extra damage. Rather weak imo compared to a big block of 40 Skinks or even a large block of Saurus. But then again, if it is a question of being limited by models, you kinda have to work with what you have got.

 

[Alladin the Paladin]

Well I assumed the whole point of the list was to run a Trog, otherwise it would just be another #NoTrogList

I think you should sit down and think about what you want the list to do, then try to focus on that element. I often see lists try to do everything and spread themself too thin, instead of focusing on what the specific army/subfaction is good at, and then double down on it to really squeeze out every benefit of synergy you can.

Personally I dont see the huge benefit of a Starpriest in this list. Sure he helps generating CPs, but his Serpent Staff is kinda wasted in this list. On a block of 3 Salamanders, it'll only add 1 extra damage on average, if it has +1 to hit from the Priest, it is around 1,5 extra damage. Rather weak imo compared to a big block of 40 Skinks or even a large block of Saurus. But then again, if it is a question of being limited by models, you kinda have to work with what you have got.

Yeah, the issue primarily is limited by my lack of models (in particular battleline - I have 20 saurus Warriors and 50 skinks). Originally I was building toward a Thunderquake list, and was going to gradually up my skinks. Then the battletome hit and upended my plans. Without going out to buy another $2-400 worth of models, I need to make do with what I got for now.

Because I build, paint and play fairly infrequently, I tend to craft my lists based not on a very specific strategy but more of a TAC-style. This does sometimes leave me with a suboptimal collection of models to work with.

Here my goal is to have a bunch of casting available (6 casts natively, 7 with BwV), which will predominantly be used to deal damage and block the enemy with endless spells. This will mainly be done in a strategically important area determined by battleplan, opponent, etc.

The Starpriest is really there as a caster, to help with endless spells.

I also have a few real “mobile” threats (salamanders), with the troglodon being a potential 3rd if he is dropped out of the sky or is LoSaT’d somewhere. The Godbeast Pendant is kind of a fun gotcha artefact that makes him a little bit more of a wild card.

The rest of my list is support/speed bumps, which isn’t very comprehensive. Model-wise, I can add the most to here, but not by much since I don’t have that much handy.

The conjuration-to-casting ratio will be determined by opponent and requirements of the battleplan. It’s not ideal, but I can still grab 4d3 per turn which should help bolster with skinks or skink heroes as needed.

If I had more skinks I would convert this into an FoS list most likely.