8th Ed. 2500pts New to the Lizards

[Qulcoatl]

Hi everyone!
I just came back from my first battle royale which was a ton of fun (There were 4 armies - Skavens, Lizards, Daemons and Undead Legions- and Nagash, Kairos and Tetto'eko were all on the field).
I didn't have my dwarfs or my DE, so I burrowed a friend's lizardmen army. While doing the army list, I felt that there was more interesting things to make with this AB than I first thought. During the game, I enjoyed their play style and fell in love with Cold Blooded. Now I want to try them out as a potential third army.
For now, I'm counting on proxying a lizardmen army if I'm going up against my brother or burrow my friend's army if otherwise, just to get a better feel of their potential and see if I can make a variety of effective army list with that book.


Here's something I came up with

Lord: 500pts
Slaan, BSB, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Channelling Staff, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, Obsidian Amulet, Crown of Command, Banner of Eternal Flame: 500pts
Deployed in solo if I can, in a Saurus block if there's too much shooting or if I want to give a saurus unit flaming attacks. High Magic is versatile, has a great anti horde spell and an healing spell and I like the Lore attribute (It was useful in the battle royal)

Heroes: 777pts
Scar-Veteran, Carnausaur, Looping Stride, Biting Blade, Charmed Shield, Light Armor
Scar-Veteran, Carnausaur, Looping Stride, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Light Armor, Ironcurse Icon
The idea behind based around the Macedonian model of hammer, anvil and skirmishers, these are my hammers
Skink Priest, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Beast
Self Explanatory

Core Units: 627pts
24 Saurus Warriors, MS
23 Saurus Warriors, MS
My anvils... Are these units too small?
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
Bunker

Special Units: 594pts
3 Ripperdactyls
3 Ripperdactyls
3 Ripperdactyls
9 Cameleon Skinks
9 Cameleon Skinks
The idea is to try to put pressure with my Cameleons to keep BS shooting from being shot at the Ripperdactyls. They effective during the battle royale and I liked their mechanic. They're pretty versatile too... but 2 wounds with T3 makes me nervous. They'll be tricky to use but I definitively can see them work well with the rest of my list.

Total: 2497pts

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Madrck]

Love your list. It's super aggressive and fun. Awesome against people that haven't played against list style of list before.
Guessing your going by end times rules since your hero points are way over the old 25%.
Your list is horridly weak to elves. Rippers are fun and can do serious work, but against elves...... they just die. Even spears will do a number on them.
If you don't care about elves I felt the list needed a steg, seriously 2 carnos but no steg made me sad.
I dropped the priest because when you use it you'll see just how awesome the slann is at dispelling. Even without becalming coge and the arcane vassal is a moot point when you are racing up the field with everything.

Slann BSB flame banner, Channel combo, obsidian amulet
Scarvet carno loping Sword of might, enchated shield(charmed might be better but you'd have to play test)Iron curse icon
Scavet carno loping GW Armour of destiny (cause that's how i roll)

Saurus x25 muso
Saurus x 24 muso
10x skirmishers

3 units of rippers
8x camos
Steg w/sharpened horns
(If you know you are against elves, or you just want to be more competitive this should certainly be a unit of 2 sallies and the rest of the points on either the second unit of camos or a chief on a ripper, or becalming coge with a few points to play with. maybe another skirmisher unit)

No matter what you do, I sure dropping the priest is right. You want to be able to deal with elves you'll need sallies. Otherwise your list looks like a great deal of fun. I'd prioritize swapping for light spells to. The combat buffs makes everything better for you

 

[Qulcoatl]

Thx for that quick reply. Very helpful!
I think I have the tools to at least try to win the chaff war against DE cavalry based list... against infantry based lists or high elves I see your point: I've got nothing to beat them.
I'd rather go without Steg, it's after all supposed to be a balanced list (only my cavalry wings are composed of lizards riding giant dinosaurs) and having a 3rd monster would make this list a bit too monster mash for my liking.
I understand that High Magic can be tricky to use, especially for a melee army because of its lack of augment/debuff to help in combats. But when for the first time you use that lore you end up with a wizard who has Wyssan Wildform and 3 different ultimate spells (bironna's, Dwellers and Fiery Convocation), you want to try it again. Light would be great too but I feel more comfortable having an healing spell. I'll use the lore of life only if I build a list with that lore in mind, I otherwise dislike it.

Here's the list with some minor tweak:

Lord: 480pts
Slaan Qul'coatl, BSB, Harmonic Convergence, Channelling Staff, Obsidian Amulet, Crown of Command, Focus of Mystery, Banner of Eternal Flame

Heroes: 738pts
Scar-Veteran Sul'tek, Carnausaur with Looping Stride, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, OTS, Light Armor, Ironcurse Icon
Scar-Veteran Kul'ton, Carnausaur with Looping Stride, Armour of Destiny, Great Weapon

Core Units: 632pts
26 Saurus Warriors, FC
26 Saurus Warriors, FC

Special Units: 490pts
3 Ripperdactyls
3 Ripperdactyls
3 Ripperdactyls
5 Cameleon Skinks
5 Cameleon Skinks

Rare Units: 160pts
Salamander Hunting Pack
Salamander Hunting Pack

I'm low on skinks on that one, but I've got decent shooting and chaff to support my infantry while my Ripperdactyl and Carnausaur Riders do their thing and get into position to support my anvils.

 

[Madrck]

I'm on a loremaster high bender at the moment as well. The toolbox is fun and interesting, and it really does open up the "There's a spell for that"

We will always flavour lists with how we feel on the day. Your list looks solid mate. Though I'd make the sallies a unit. First turn 6 dice WBW (make sure you don't march the sallies so they can shoot). It just ends games. You will get a perfect flank shot on their horde if they have one, or hit 2-4 units. You can do some incredible things with WBW and a couple of sallies.

I can't help but feel the crown of command is wasted points. What do you need to be stubborn against? The combat units that can break you, you shouldn't be anywhere near them until your magic/sallies have made them manageable.
Spend the points on a BSB. 18" bubble means your CoC and rippers will almost never fail LD tests.

Happy hunting

 

[Qulcoatl]

Alright, I think I'm finally done trying to find an all rounder balanced build with that kind of list until further test. Again thanks a lot for your advices.



Lord: 410pts

Slaan Mage-Priest Qul'Toatl, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Channelling Staff, Obsidian Amulet
Much less of a point sink now for pretty much the same result


Heroes: 551pts

Scar-Veteran Sul'Tek, Carnausaur, Looping Stride, Armour of Destiny, Great Weapon, BSB
Should have thought about the 18" Hold Your Ground! It makes its point cost easier to swallow. Sadly, he's now my only Carnausaur Rider

Skink Chief Ik'Xul, Ripperdactyl, Egg of Quango, Enchanted Shield, Light Armor, Biting Blade, Dragonbane Gem
Just seems like a very versatile and cost effective utility character. I think he will be a good support for my Ripperdactyl units if I'm against elves. Otherwise, he can deal with ethereal units and war machines and punish units with flaming attacks. The Egg of Quango looks great.


Core Units: 625pts

35 Saurus Warriors, FC
Now my only combat block, but I think it will serve its deserved purpose better than the alternative for a lesser cost.

10 Skink Javeliners
10 Skink Javeliners
10 Skink Javeliners
Poisoned shooting, chaff, might serve as a bunker for the Slaan against some match up, they also give me drops... Still haven't tried either but I feel more comfortable with that build for my core.


Special Units: 503pts

6 Ripperdactyl Riders
3 Ripperdactyl Riders

7 Cameleon Skinks
6 Cameleon Skinks


Rare Units: 410pts

Ancient Stegadon, Sharpened Horns
Replacing the other Carnausaur

2 Salamander Hunting Packs
Can't wait for these flank shot in hordes

 

[Qulcoatl]

Play tested the list against Dark Elves and then against skavens.
Against dark elves, he had a MSU/cavalry ish list supporting an horde of Witches with Cauldron.
He had something looking like this:

Supreme Sorceress Level 4 of Shadow
Cloak of Twilight Pegmaster
Cauldron of Blood BSB
30 Witches, FC, Razor Standard
2x5 Dark Riders
2 units of 7-8 Shades
2 units of 10 Warlocks
4 Bolt Throwers

I think that was a good match up for my list. The Ripperdactyls were able to deal with his shades (though just barely) and were then able to take out his Bolt Throwers and his Dark Riders and then helped a little the Carnausaur Rider kill a unit of warlock.
The cameleon units were my MVP. One of them killed 4 Warlocks in a shooting phase (they had BS7), while the other killed even more by getting charged and destroyed by warlocks who then proceded to fail to restrain to overrun in a march. By the time they had left the march, at least half the unit was dead.
He called it while his witches were engaged with my Saurus and were about to get rear charged by both my monsters. In the end, I would probably have lost the Saurus and kept almost all the rest of my points.
So a solid win there.

Against Skavens, as far as I can remember, he had 40 Stormvermins, 3x50 slaves, bunker of 40 slaves with Grey Seer and BSB (or maybe they were clan rats), 9 Gutter Runners, 2 chieftain with halberd, a Doom Rocket Engineer, 1 hellpit, a doomwheel, 2 WLC.

In that game I lost almost everything but my Slaan and my Ripperdactyls. I also had my unit of saurus with 2 man left standing.
I really should have lost this game, but after an unlucky rerollable ld 8 test, he lost his bunkers to my ripperdactyls and I was then able to use them to finish off his stormvermins who had been Fiery Convocationed to nothingness.
This ended up with a minor win for me (I won by 100 ish points, and only because of the bonus VP for capturing his BSB and killing his general.

My thought on the list:
Great fun to play with. I most admit I'm quite impressed by Ripperdactyls. The carnausaur sadly doesn't.
So expensive for something that dies so easily. Here's my point, a monster that can get murdered by Stormvermins is either a cheap monster or a bad monster.

Few Changes:
Nothing dramatic, I wish to keep the same passive/aggressive play style witch I'm comfortable with. Just without the Carnausaur...


Lord: 460pts

Slaan Mage-Priest Qul'Coatl the Omniscient, BSB, Harmonic Convergence, Channelling Staff, Obsidian Amulet, Focus of Mystery, Becalming Cogitation


Heroes: 431pts

Scar-Veteran Mighty Sul'Tek, CO, Dawnstone, Dragon Helm, OTS, GW, Light Armour
Scar-Veteran Zealous Xul'Ton, CO, Armour of Fortune, GW
Skink Chief Blessed Ix'Zul, Ripperdactyl, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Biting Blade, Luck Stone, The Egg of Quango


Core Units: 625pts

35 Saurus Warriors, FC
10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins
10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins
10 Skink Skirmishers, Blowpipes


Special Units: 570pts

5 Ripperdactyl Riders
3 Ripperdactyl Riders
3 Ripperdactyl Riders
5 Cameleon Skinks
5 Cameleon Skinks


Rare Units: 410pts

Ancient Stegadon Old Tol'Rok, Sharpened Horns
2 Salamander Hunting Packs


Total: 2496pts

 

[Madrck]

Hopefully we will get combined profiles and carnosaurs will turn into the death dealing monsters they always should be. Until then you have just joined the rest of us in being sad that a cold one is a much better choice.
I'd go with spear on the skink chief, unless it's your concession to etheral.
Otherwise your list looks spot on mate. armour of fortune over destiny is a little crap, but I don't know where you get the last 15p to upgrade it.

 

[Qulcoatl]

Yes, the magic weapon is here to deal with ethereal units.
I'm also bothered by not having the points for the armour of destiny. I would have to drop a chameleon, which will force me 2 take 1x9 instead of 2x5 of them.