8th Ed. 2500 point list

[strewart]

I have made a few small changes to my old 2500 point list, and completed building it so I can now play proper big battles. I'll be trying the list tonight to see how I like it. Next task is to get most of the army painted!

Slann, general, BSB, Mystery (loremaster, lore of light), Rumination (free PD), Cogitation (Discard opponent casting 6), Cupped Hands, Standard of Discipline (light or life? I will try light today I think since I haven't used it before)

Priest, lvl 1, scroll (He will take iceshard blizzard to throw if need be, will also be able to channel for the Slann)

Scar Vet, Sword of Battle, Dragonhelm, LA, SHLD

Scar Vet, Golden Sigil Sword, Charmed Shield, LA

23 saurus, full command, spears (Scar vet goes here)

23 saurus, full command (Scar vet goes here)

21 skinks, full command, 2 krox (priest goes here)

10 skink skirmishers

16 Temple Guard, full command (Probably will go 6 across, 2 deep with 2 extra behind for numbers)

8 chameleons

2 salamanders, both with extra handler

Ancient Stegadon


Thoughts?

 

[strewart]

Ok obviously this list is quite powerful and solid... I used it to massacre a Skaven army last night. Only two things in his list gave me any kind of trouble; plague priest unit (3 attacks each rerolling all failed to hit and wound rolls in the first round, ouch!) and a large unit of rat ogres.

I'm not interested in dominating games since I play with friends, maybe there are a few tweaks I could make to have the list a bit more friendly and not as strong? I've mostly taken units I really like the look of rather than for the power of the army so I'd quite like to keep most of it still in there just for that reason..

 

[Idura]

It's a very strong list yes . In my group it'd be outlawed.

I know how you feel, i had a game where one 36 big saurus unit and 10 CoC just sat on my side of the table like scaly cheerleeders and watched the rest of my army completely massacre his. It just was not fun at all...

With lizardmen its fun, you can practically nerf your list quite a lot and still perform very well. If you want some more challenges i recommend some nerfs i have tried:

Take some CoC

Take some Razordons

Shrink saurus units to ~20 (i hate this)

Cap your slann at 375p

Play with kroxless ranked skinks (lol)

Play with ranked kroxies!

Play without slann and with oldblood carno instead

Take a weird lore (not light or life )

Play without salamanders

Thing is even with these "nerfs" on your army you'll still be able to win .



This might be to much to read and count but if you really want to balance it, use a comp: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61737029/Fantasy-Kompmallen-Beta-v-1-2

We started doing that and our games have become very very close after that. It makes sure you bring a balanced army to the table.

 

[strewart]

Yeah running through that comp chart roughly and quickly, I think my scores comes out in the negatives!

Might soften the Slann a bit, I suggested to my friend that I'd shove some COC in to weaken the list but he seems to think they are a very strong option too. I will consider dropping the TG actually, but from what I have heard that won't really weaken the army that much, and I do really like the models.

There is still room for him to power up his Skaven army a bit, and I still think that if he does that I will struggle against them (bias view though, I see my own weaknesses and his strengths) so I might try another game or two before making huge changes. Switching lore is an easy option too, the buffs from light made a BIG difference to combats.

 

[Idura]

That's what i love about lizards. People say you nerf your army, but CoC aint really bad (imo). I've still not had a game where they didn't performed admirably. Sure, for the points i might have had a unit that would have done the job better, but the nerf aint that big when choosing CoC. Same with Razordons, People generally seems to hate them. I don't like some of the rules for them either (should be poisoned or Ap and/or march and shoot) But really, they are still good and i always field em (not to mention the completely awesome models ).

Soften up the slann is always scary, at least with random lore and tg. I am always scared of the stupid miscast but usually you can live with the occasional blast of tg, at least if you massacre your opponent last game it really doesn't matter what happens in the next. It's all good experience!

As far as i've learned, taking TG is a nerf to the lizards but imo its a matter of playstyle. It's not that big nerf in a friendly game where you don't care about min/maxing. And your TG of 16 is perfectly balanced (i usually run at least 20).

A skaven army can be completely vicious, just wait until you face some stupidly undercosted Hpa and doomwheels . You really should not have to nerf your army too much facing skaven, its him that should be boosting it instead.

 

[Avatar]

it's a nice army list, i was just about to make a 2400pt list with a slann in, might use a similar build.
What is the purpose of Standard of Discipline though? As the unit cant use inspiring presence with it? maybe i'm reading it wrong but... it seems strange :/ I might go for the good ol' warbanner approach....

 

[strewart]

They can't use inspiring presense... BUT they can use the leadership of the highest model in the unit for all tests, which happens to be his 10.

I think the TG unit is a bit small actually, after a few games playing it. They can be vulnerable to hard hitting things, and are protecting my most important unit. Not sure where I can find points though... Drop the spears on the saurus unit gives me 1 extra TG.

 

[Avatar]

how about the camo skinks?? i never find them particularly effective...

here is my adaption of your list to suit my playing style, and upped to 2550pts:

Lords
Slann - BSB, Mystery (lore master, lore of life), Rumination (free PD), Cogitation (Discard opponent casting 6), Cupped Hands (anti miscast)

Heroes
Skink Priest - level 1, feathered cloak (fly)
Scar Vet1 - Light Armour, Charmed Shield (first wound ignored 2+), Dawn stone (reroll saves), Burning Blade (flaming and -3AS)
Scar Vet2 – Shield, Gamblers Armour (HA 6+ ward), Sword of Battle (+1 attack)

Core
25 Saurus, full command, spears (Scar vet1 goes here)
20 skinks, full command, 2 Kroxigors
10 skink skirmishers
10 skink skirmishers
10 skink skirmishers

Special
20 Temple Guard, full command, banner of eternal flame (scar vet2 and Slann go here)
Stegadon

Rare
2 salamanders
Ancient Stegadon

TOTAL = 2545

 

[strewart]

Hmmm interesting idea having another steg instead of one of the units of saurus. I'd probably find that idea more fun, might give it a go at some point. For now, I am really finding the two big units of saurus very helpful. Most of my opponents armies have 3 strong blacks of infantry to break through; having a strong unit of my own to combat them works well.

I have found the chams a bit mixed so far. They are simply amazing for taking out warmachines though; I got them to destroy a warplightning cannon on turn 1 in my first game. The extra BS is also very useful for moving quickly and getting a big amount of poison shots. They have failed me, and against some armies there isn't really anywhere useful to scout them to, but they're not really a lot of points. For the potential, I definitely wouldn't play without them.

I am now at 3 wins, 0 losses for the list. The first was against Skaven, I simply walked all over them as I mentioned earlier. The second was against Wood Elves. They are a very weak army now really, there was a treeman and a big unit of dryads that could have caused me a lot of trouble but the rest was basically support. Their shooting is good, but not enough to stop big units. Anyway, he rolled really badly with dryads against my saurus and I broke them when they charged. The treeman was killed by my steg in combat. One saurus unit didn't see battle, skinks took out wardancers, solid win.

The last game was extremely close and sat on a knife edge. I was saved only by salamanders (I love them so much!). It was against beastmen, and was extremely brutal. By the end of the game I had less than half of my skrox unit left, both sallies, one very small unit of saurus and a coupple of cham skinks. He had his lord, a chariot and a small unit of ungors. It was pretty much 50/50 in the last turn, with him possibly slightly more likely to win, but salamanders jumped on his BSB unit that was already severely weakened and managed to break them, thus winning the game. TG and Slann held in combat for a long time against bestigors and lord, they had great weapons and hit very very hard. Eventually when just the Slann was left, he miscast killing some bestigors and himself just as my steg and saurus unit arrived to offer support. Only just got over the line, I need to not face my TG unit against opponents strongest because chances are, they will eventually win since they are usually big units, have a combat character, and often a chariot or something at least.

 

[Avatar]

I don't think I have ever gone into battle with only one steggy! I went to a sale when an independant stockist was getting rid of all there stock. All warhammer was half price. I now own 5 stegs. lol.

I have never used/owned any chamo's, but them and terradons are next on my list haha...

thats not a pretty good record! I find beastmen usually a very poor opponent, and wood elves quite challenging... but probably just different playing styles etc...

 

[Iggy Koopa]

Try running a OB/Carn instead of a Slann... your comp points go way up then!

 

[strewart]

I have never used/owned any chamo's, but them and terradons are next on my list haha...

thats not a pretty good record! I find beastmen usually a very poor opponent, and wood elves quite challenging... but probably just different playing styles etc...

I converted my charmeleons from normal skinks. Adding some detail to the bases, cutting the crests off, a little bit of other minor work and will be painted in chamo green colours to distinguish them from the rest of my skinks. Will post photos when the painting gets done. Also converting terradons from Tyranid gargoyles, but thats been put on hold since I'm not using terradons in my list.

Beastmen I don't find too challenging with my High Elves, which is interesting because they always struggle immensely with Skaven. The LM seemed to be the other way, however, it has only been one battle with Lizards against Beast so we shall see in the future.


I'd love to bring my carnosaur to battle. Unfortunately, in 8th edition you almost HAVE to take a lvl4 wizard or you will just get smashed by magic. I found that out early on. I would like to expand the army to 3000 points and fit both a Slann and a carnosaur in, however, even there it is hard to find the points allowance.

 

[Avatar]

Yes definately post them up, I would love to see them.

My other main army is Dark Elves, who yeah, no problem with vamps, beastmen or anything like that... but I agree, skaven are a nightmare to play... haha

You also say how you need to to bring a 4th level wizard... but i disagree, only if your against lizards or VC's for example. I run a Carno most of the time, and it works quite well. And even with my DE's i only run a single level 2. allowing me more fast moving units to take their magic out with.

 

[strewart]

I guess it is different in everyone's gaming group. In 7th ed, my elven army used to happily roll with just a lvl1 scroll cady against any army. It was tough against VC, but he made it work.

In 8th... The same list just started getting pounded since my opponents had close to double the PD as I had DD on average, and got +4 to all spell rolls (lvl 4 wizard) while I only got +2 to dispel rolls. Plus these days the spells are much more powerful and can have a much bigger influence on the battle. Skaven grey seers would murder me, hell even beastman great bray shamans would be able to drop a few really critical spells to swing the battle in their favour.

I turned that around with an archmage, and made him powerful with Book of Hoeth. The amount of units I saved from being able to reliable increase the toughness of a unit exactly when I wanted was insane.

I am now finding my LM army at a massive massive advantage due to magic. I can pretty much drop whatever spell I want whenever I want. Having everyone at WS and I 10 then making opponents -1 to hit in combat (lore of light) makes almost any opponent get belted by saurus. In addition, I can completely shut down my opponent's magic phase with an early net on the lvl4, and the ignore 6's ability. Magic just has such a huge impact on battles these days, not with damage but with buffs and hexes. At less than 2k I'd probably leave the lvl4 at home, but 2k and above no way I could.