8th Ed. 2500 MSU double slann list

[arthain]

So there is this bi-monthly tourney where i have been making progress (last time i ended 5/18) but i can't seem to give the last punch to get some decent victories (i get my points through marginal victories). I seek advice here on how to round up the list for good.

Coments on the meta: Games last 2,30h so usually means 4 turns. (One of the reasons i don't take saurus, they don't have enough time to do their job). 18 players, 3 games each. Always Battle Line. Fleeing units at the end of the game count their points in VP (as if fled off the board). Units/characters below 50% count 50% of VPs (As in 7th ed). No special characters. 3 Lizzies (including me), 3 dwarfs, 3 Ogres, a Vampire, an Imperial, a WoC, a High elf, a Wood elf, an Orc, 3 DE.

Here is the list:
Slann, Death, Rumiation, Tepok Table, Bane Head
Slann, Shadow, Rumiation, BSB, Power Stone, General

Skink Chief, Feather cape
Skink Priest, lv 2, DScroll
Skink Priest, lv 2, Cube of Darkness
Skink Priest, lv 2

10 Skirmishers (x6 units)
10 Skinks with musician (x4 units)

6 Chammo skinks (x3 units)
3 Terradon riders (x3 units)

2 Salamanders (x2 units)

Coments on the list. I try to avoid combat aac. Deploy as far from him as possible (i have many units so it should be easy, and try to make him move around and clump. Death slann is not general nor BSB because he is prone to die. Shadow one can be saved more easily (Smoke and mirrors). The priests are there for the commet of cassandora (screws up gunlines) and the dispelling. They are my most recent incorporation to the list (I used to run 3 scarvets cowboys or a Engine but noone of them seemed to work out good: I have already chaff enough to kill off chaff and the Engine needs to get into enemy lines to do some damage and then it dies)

 

[Hinds]

I was about to say try running cowboys instead of the priests, but if that doesn't work.. well.. What do you use your skink chief for? In my games they Flying Skink of Doom hardly ever works and only against warmachines, where you have plenty of warmachine killing here.

This type of list does not get that many points imo, since you play conservatively. It is all good if you find it fun, but you will only ever get points when you have enough skinks shooting at a unit to wipe them out. Anyways, as I see it, it will in general be hard to get a lot of pts with this kind of list.

If it was me I would drop the priests, or atleast those not carrying stuff for you. I find a Cowboy with Crown of Command (if allowed) to be super fun to hold up units virtually forever, but the again with no combat units that does not give you pts either

 

[skillfull_dan]

I assume the majority of the points you get are from killing characters with death+shadow, and then forcing panic tests after general/bsb is dead.

Why do you run 2 slann and 3 skink priests, I can see the point of scroll caddies because your lords is hitting its 25% limit, but the priests dont need to be level 2 and there doesnt need to be a third one. Your slann should be eating up all of your dice anyways.

I would drop the third skink priest, turn the other priests into level 1's, drop the skink chief, and get the above scar vet cowboy with a 1+ save. If there are points left over I would get more salamanders so that you can force more break tests which you can make harder with doom and darkness. The army has no melee superstars so your army needs to get points through forcing panic and sniping characters.

 

[lehmunayde]

You are going to have a problem with dwarves. If you try to engage with magic, they can dispell easily and annihilate you with their shooting. Granted, your skinks may take their toll, but I always favour saurus and slann with life- it's effective to heal up 11-point models compared to lesser armies. I don't recommend you do life with skinks though.

But, if you're having trouble with your slann dying, take the thing that upgrades his save to a 2+ from all ranged attacks (i forget its name). Unsurprisingly, this is useful if you intend to stay away.

Surely however you should attempt to get your skinks in close, so that their short-ranged but deadly (en masse) weapons can take their toll?

Finally, on your wizards. 5 is a lot. 5 level 2 or more wizards is hugely cost-ineffective. Honestly, you need a slann to do heavy damage, and a skink priest or two to use cassandora or iceshard blizzard- both immensely useful for enemy shooting, (especially iceshard when used with skinks means panicking them is easy but shooting you is less so)

So, it's a decent list, but as other people have picked up, is does have some flaws. Cut down on your L+H and fit in a stegadon, say.

 

[arthain]

@Hinds

my main point source is, of course, of death lore, sniping and purple sun. i don't shoot that much as many of my skinks are blocking each other or just rallied, so people see my list and think OMG 100 shooting models but the truth is usually half or even less of them actually shoot each turn.

The skink is for saving the slann BSB with smoke and mirrors when needed (Trade 600 pts for 80, saved me 1 game). Other than that is points denial (i don't need or have more skinks units anyway) but it could go away if needed.

I forgot to say also that in my meta, fleeing units at end of game count their VPs, units below 50% count 50% their VPs, so it's easier to get some points of a sun'ed deathstar. I have never got less than 700 VPs this this list and this VP system.

As i said, the priest are the thing i'm least convinced of. But the cowboy will eventually die and as you said, i have no way of backing him up. (Almost everyone here has GW)

@skillfull_dan

As said, the cowboy does tie up a unit an average of 3-4 combat phases, but eventually dies, and gives up points. I can do the same with my double fleeing skinks at lower cost.

More salamanders make the unit big and impractical. I have tried'em but to no use, i have to rank up 1 sally (making her unable to shoot) and/or the extra space taken up messes with myself more than the shoot does with my enemy.

@lehmunayde

I indeed have. Specially when they go anti-magic heavy (One of them does, the other 2 don't). I don't like saurus for the mentioned reasons, although i have to say the are better agains dwarfs because their turns are so quick that we have time to play full 6 turns and the saurus have time to do their job and kill several dwarfs.

The only problem with slann dying is off miscast, specially with Death one, who shoots a lot of spells (I have miscasted up to 3 times in a single game, one of them with 6 dice, another with 4 and another with 3. Hell i even miscasted with only 2 dices on turn 2. If you cast enough spells you miscast even with 3-4 dices)

My plan against dwarves is to stay out of range of as much as possible and hit him with IF Comet.

5 is a lot of wizards indeed. I agree, but i just don't know what else to use. One of the reasons of so many lvl priests is to guarantee comet. Steg is a good suggestion, but what kind? I'd gess ancient, and maybe i can fit a regular one too. i might try that.

My other options are: CoC, Kroxis.

Saurus are too slow, i have as said enough wizards, i have enough skinks too. Only need some heavy fast hitters. Wich of the them (CoC, Kroxis, Steg, Cowboys) will last longer and secondarily punch harder?. I have 250-400pts to spent there

 

[lehmunayde]

Sorry for replying late again!

Miscast problems =throne of vines. It's lore of life, but dammit, I think everyone should take life anyway- its drawbacks are so far outweighed by this single spell that I can't see why anyone should say no.

It allows you to ignore any miscast on a D6 roll of 2+. Additionally, it boosts all the spells from the lore, including the potential for your slann to make skinks toughness 6 on an 8+ I think- potentially castable on a single dice.

Yes, staying out of range is always a clever thing to do. Until they move themselves into range and then you're cornered. You won't beat them with comet alone- you've got to engage, and CoC is an excellent option. You can have up to half your army of them (although I wouldn't recommend that) and they will certainly make their mark on any game.

 

[Hinds]

@Hinds

my main point source is, of course, of death lore, sniping and purple sun. i don't shoot that much as many of my skinks are blocking each other or just rallied, so people see my list and think OMG 100 shooting models but the truth is usually half or even less of them actually shoot each turn.

The skink is for saving the slann BSB with smoke and mirrors when needed (Trade 600 pts for 80, saved me 1 game). Other than that is points denial (i don't need or have more skinks units anyway) but it could go away if needed.

I forgot to say also that in my meta, fleeing units at end of game count their VPs, units below 50% count 50% their VPs, so it's easier to get some points of a sun'ed deathstar. I have never got less than 700 VPs this this list and this VP system.

As i said, the priest are the thing i'm least convinced of. But the cowboy will eventually die and as you said, i have no way of backing him up. (Almost everyone here has GW)

@skillfull_dan

As said, the cowboy does tie up a unit an average of 3-4 combat phases, but eventually dies, and gives up points. I can do the same with my double fleeing skinks at lower cost.

More salamanders make the unit big and impractical. I have tried'em but to no use, i have to rank up 1 sally (making her unable to shoot) and/or the extra space taken up messes with myself more than the shoot does with my enemy.

@lehmunayde

I indeed have. Specially when they go anti-magic heavy (One of them does, the other 2 don't). I don't like saurus for the mentioned reasons, although i have to say the are better agains dwarfs because their turns are so quick that we have time to play full 6 turns and the saurus have time to do their job and kill several dwarfs.

The only problem with slann dying is off miscast, specially with Death one, who shoots a lot of spells (I have miscasted up to 3 times in a single game, one of them with 6 dice, another with 4 and another with 3. Hell i even miscasted with only 2 dices on turn 2. If you cast enough spells you miscast even with 3-4 dices)

My plan against dwarves is to stay out of range of as much as possible and hit him with IF Comet.

5 is a lot of wizards indeed. I agree, but i just don't know what else to use. One of the reasons of so many lvl priests is to guarantee comet. Steg is a good suggestion, but what kind? I'd gess ancient, and maybe i can fit a regular one too. i might try that.

My other options are: CoC, Kroxis.

Saurus are too slow, i have as said enough wizards, i have enough skinks too. Only need some heavy fast hitters. Wich of the them (CoC, Kroxis, Steg, Cowboys) will last longer and secondarily punch harder?. I have 250-400pts to spent there

I actually like the stegadon idea, but tbey are cannon magnets!
I can often have my cowboys last the whole game and take on rather big units (so few can hit them) but they will rarely make those units flee/break. If you want som heavy hitters I would personally go with the CoC or the Steg. The CoC are kinda overpriced, but they do dish out a lot of attacks and have a good save. I guess it kinda depends on how afraid of cannons you are personally I like the idea about fielding 2 stegs actually