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8th Ed. 2400 MSU - Need some advice

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Malleus

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Hi guys, I have been looking at building another MSU army and figured that Lizardmen would be a nice fit for this, however I am not wanting to paint too many skinks..... here is the first draft. I'm currently thinking that the Chameleon Skinks should be a single unit of 8, I am also not entirely sold on using the Templeguard as I could afford a few smaller units but do not know enough about the new book's synergy

Slann Mage Priest
Level 4, Lore of High Magic, Focus of Mystery, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline

Saurus Scar-Veteran
Light Armour, Shield, Biting Blade

Saurus Scar-Veteran
Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonhelm

Skink Priest
Lore of Heavens, Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest
Lore of beasts, Cube of Darkness

17 Saurus Warriors
Musician, Standard Bearer

17 Saurus Warriors
Musician, Standard Bearer

10 Skink Skirmishers
Javelin & Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers
Javelin & Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

20 Templeguard
Full Command, Jaguar Standard

5 Chameleon Skinks

5 Chameleon Skinks

3 Ripperdactyl Riders

3 Ripperdactyl Riders
 
The small units of saurus warriors will die to fast.. Maybe replace for a unit of 34 with a scar-vet (5x7) and put one scar-vet on cold one! Rest looks fun to me! Like your skink priests (Heavens and Beasts) i always use them like this! but never saw anybody who used it like this to!
 
Yup, saurus are too small at 17.
I'd bump to at least 24, or go the other way and drop then to 10 or 12.
24 has the advantage of more attacks and another rank (for combat res). I find that I'm often not steadfast, but have enough combat res to be able to hold (with the slaans guidance).
The other route is just take really small units, and accept that they will break often break. Use them to do some damage as they redirect.

-Matt
 
Ok small amount of jiggery pokery

Slann Mage –Priest
Level 4, Lore of High Magic, Focus of Mystery, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline

Skink Chief
Terradon, Light Armour, Shield, Spear, Dragonhelm

Skink Chief
Terradon, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Spear, Dragonbane Gem

Skink Priest
Lore of Heavens, Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest
Lore of beasts, Cube of Darkness

24 Saurus Warriors
Musician, Standard Bearer

24 Saurus Warriors
Musician, Standard Bearer

10 Skink Skirmishers
Javelin & Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers
Javelin & Shield

10 Skink Skirmishers
Blowpipes

20 Templeguard
Full Command, Jaguar Standard

Bastiladon
Solar Engine

Bastiladon
Solar Engine

8 Chameleon Skinks

3 Ripperdactyl Riders


I forgot the Basiladon's from the first post!
 
I think the only problem you will run into is the lack of hitting power in melee.

An old lizard once told me that Saurus murder scrubs, but need help against mid-range to elite infantry. That "help" could be a fighty hero, a steggadon, kroxigor into the flank, or magic.
I have found this to be very true. When I send in saurus alone, they slowly get ground down. The slaan and the cold blood keeps in them place, but the unit slowly dwindles.

With the list you've got, you don't have much in the way of support for the blocks. WS4 S5 temple guard will hold their own, but you're going to have to count on your magic to boost the saurus.

Due to the nature of the magic phase, I always plan on my magic doing nothing, and my units being able to get the job done without the buffs and hexes. It appears your list doesn't have that option.

Without changing what models your bringing, I would split the 2nd block of saurus into 2 blocks of 12.
Use the bigger blocks to hold, and the smaller blocks to flank.
18 or 24 S4 attacks from the front (handweapon/spear) with another 18 S4 in the flank is suddenly a real threat.

Another option would be to trim points for a saurus hero. Everybody Loves Cowboys. I also love Scar Vet, light armor, enchanted shield, sword of might. 111 points of 2+ armor S6 beat stick. That gets a look out. If you drop the chameleons and 1 saurus, you've got the points for this guy.


-Matt
 
I like the idea of the Flanking Saurus, good spot

What are people's view on Ethereal/Unstable Slann these days?
 
Malleus said:
What are people's view on Ethereal/Unstable Slann these days?
Click to expand...


I think that there is a place for him in some lists, but he is really expensive for what he does. The build I would use would have an Ethereal Slann w/ BSB, Warbanner, Egg of Quango. This would give him fairly good static combat res against units that have no ranks. With the charge, he could beat most monsters by 3. The Egg gives him a little wound support and allows him to charge all sorts of light units and win combat. He could be a fun surprise for a regular opponent who is not prepared to play against an ethereal unit. However, with the amount of magical ranged attacks in the form of artillery and enemies who bring things to deal with Ethereal, I would think that he would often become a points sink in a tournament/all-comers list. He is something that is good or bad based on what your opponent brings, and he is expensive.

Give him a try, he might be fun. You could even give him beasts magic and fencer's blades to try and turn him into a combat monster with the buff spells.
 
For the ethereal slaan, I'd run one or two cheap characters on foot, and go with lore of shadow.
Shadow is a very solid lore, and Smoke and Mirrors is priceless on a lone unstable point sink.

-Matt
 
Ok so have done a small re work

Total Roster Cost: 2399

Slann Mage-Priest - 360 pts
Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery

Saurus Scar-Veteran - 115 pts
Cold One, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonbane Gem

Saurus Scar-Veteran - 113 pts
Cold One, Halberd, Light Armour, Charmed Shield

Skink Priest - 90 pts
Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest - 95 pts
Lore of Heavens, Cube of Darkness

24 Saurus Warriors - 284 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer

10 Saurus Warriors - 120 pts
Musician

10 Saurus Warriors - 120 pts
Musician

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70 pts

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70 pts

14 Temple Guard - 231 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness

7 Chameleon Skinks - 91 pts

5 Cold One Riders - 170 pts
Spear

5 Cold One Riders - 170 pts
Spear

Bastiladon - 150 pts
Solar Engine

Bastiladon - 150 pts
Solar Engine
 
Well what worked to me was the use of a combat unit templeguard of 36 with a slann in the unit.. Maybe that could be your strength against elites? I wouldn't prefer a scar veteran on foot.. I should use at least one stegadon if you don't want a huge block of templeguard! Sharpened horns and you have a monster hunter and deadly against some elite infantry
 
I like the re-work for MSU.
Between the heroes and the cav, and the small saurus blocks, you have a lot of hitting support options.

-Matt
 
I used to use a list similar to your initial list (I used 3 units of 18 Saurus and a lone slann). It did fantastic but the trick was Light Magic and using the big versions. I'm not sure how well it would work with the new edition (without the +1 power die each spell).

The key is combined arms support. Stegadons help. Also, never be afraid to flee with anything. The trick with MSU is everything is expendable, even the Slann in the right circumstance.
 
@ Zwuppie - I really do not want a large unit in the list as that becomes the obvious target for spells, missile fire etc etc I want my opponant to be literally swamped with choices, even with the re worked version I am uncomfortable with the point value of the Temple Guard + Slann but he needs to go somewhere and I'm loath to using Beasts on him.

@ Clarkarias - I'm just not a fan of the Stegadon model and dont have the time (or skill) to be able to convert it to something that I like the look of, so would rather focus my attention elsewhere, however the Troglodon does look interesting rulewise and model wise so i maybe tempted to trial a version of the list with that included over vassal.

@ Lizardmatt - Thank you for your help so far, it has been a great aid
 
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