8th Ed. 2400-2500 points

[Bananmats]

Here is my standard competative list, which i think is tweaked abit from many simular.

I cant put points cause im at work "psst dont tell me boss ! "

Light Slann
Discard 6
Extra dice
Lore
BSB
+1 leadership
Cupped hands

Engine of god
lvl 1 with dispell scroll

2x 30 saurus FC "Recently listend to people who dont like FC...think its a minor decision to have or not."

Temple guard FC around 20-25
Flame banner

2x1 Salamander "sometimes with sometimes without handler"
or 2+1 "In the unit with 2..i dont have extra handler"

5 chameleons

Im swapping around abit with salamanders and chameleons units/sizes depending on points, tournament or if you know your opponent. Beast/ogre and that sort of stuff il put more chameleon "no brainer".

When i lose "which are less then wons, and always close decision" i do it with a real shitty magic phase in the important situations. Like turn 3 combat.

Havent given my opponents any miscast gifts in a long time either !

Feel free to comment !

 

[wbarobinson]

Drop the +1 leadership, both fc to mus and stand, flaming banner, 5 temple guard, and that is 129 points saved... If you split off the priest and engine and make it a regular stegadon, you have 144... Now... Imagine what you can do with 144 points... 12 more chameleons! 2 more salamanders! A scarvet on cold one with charmed shield and something really nice! You go from fluffy spare points to game changing units...

 

[Bananmats]

Nothing in the list is fluff

+1 Leadership is arguable, 10 pts.... I think it takes 1 saved leadership test for it to pay the rest of your warhammer career.

Flamebanner another really cheap item.If you know your oponnent then thats one thing.
Nasty regeneration things are like magnets to slann. However, drop the banner and the standard bearer might be saving a idea...? If slann has BSB the standard wont even add to combat resolution ?

5 TG vs 1 scarVet close call.


Not sure about going from Engine of god to baby steg + scarVet either. Think il rather just drop the steg and go something else then. Its a option.


But i do hear you with chams and salamanders...trying my best to squize in.
One thing thou, more Salamanders in the same groups makes them less efficent points wise.
They will be more prioritized, they will be harder to maneuver around and less of redirectors cause the points actucally makes sense, to attack.

 

[wbarobinson]

Lets say that 2x1 salamanders are the worth 4 times their points... and that 2x2 salamanders are worth 3 times their points... It is still the case that more salamanders are better. Swiftstride skirmishers with monster handler rules, which means the march to anywhere within 12 inches, and shoot... they are also better because they share a pool of skinks, so if one is too hungry the other gives him skinks to eat.
They have 5up wardsaves that get attacks!

 

[Bananmats]

Lets say that 2x1 salamanders are the worth 4 times their points... and that 2x2 salamanders are worth 3 times their points... It is still the case that more salamanders are better. Swiftstride skirmishers with monster handler rules, which means the march to anywhere within 12 inches, and shoot... they are also better because they share a pool of skinks, so if one is too hungry the other gives him skinks to eat.
They have 5up wardsaves that get attacks!

I continue to see that people call handlers 5+ ward save. That isnt true. You need to make panic test after losses and you dont have unlimited amounts.

 

[wbarobinson]

Wrong! You do not take panic tests for losing handlers. BRB says they are ignored for most gaming purposes. Also, if you salamander is wounded 5 times, 1 or 2 pf those will allocate to handlers, meaning you are a dead lizard. Seeing as he comes with 3, or 6 in the case of 2 salamanders, and will misfire once every 2 games and eat and average of 2...that is 1 unit of 2 salamnder eating an average of 2 and only expecting 4 wardsaves, meaning, you have enough... Ward saves that attack for you... Pure awesome.

 

[Lord Tsunami]

you are missing skinks, arent you?

If your enemy deploys a deathstar you can just bend over and take it like a champion At the very least 3 fast units should be deployed, and you have one (chameleons). i am not counting salamanders cause you really do not want to sacrafice those. i would say get at least 2 units of skirmishers for redirecting, screening and killing enemy fast units. after that they could go poach some warmachines to wrap it up. they are truly awesome, and should be a central part of every army that wants to be competitive.

skinks help you own the movement phase, thats where most of the "generalship" is. if you play two straight up combat armies against each other you might as well play yahtzee... only that a deathstar of for example chosen chaos warriors would be the equivalent of getting to roll 5 extra dice. you are unlikely to win that game

 

[Dunya]

Agreed, lacking utility and redirection. Skirmishers could do it, Terradons is another alternative. Just vanguard+fly them foward 32" and drop rocks on enemy light units and be ready to redirect for the Saurus on turn 2, works like a charm.

 

[Bananmats]

Wrong! You do not take panic tests for losing handlers. BRB says they are ignored for most gaming purposes. Also, if you salamander is wounded 5 times, 1 or 2 pf those will allocate to handlers, meaning you are a dead lizard. Seeing as he comes with 3, or 6 in the case of 2 salamanders, and will misfire once every 2 games and eat and average of 2...that is 1 unit of 2 salamnder eating an average of 2 and only expecting 4 wardsaves, meaning, you have enough... Ward saves that attack for you... Pure awesome.

I would like a second opinion on that. But it might make sense. But please stop with the ward save frenzy.
You are just stubborn with it. How much will it save in hand to hand etc...

Your math hammer is off too. Sorry.

 

[Bananmats]

you are missing skinks, arent you?

If your enemy deploys a deathstar you can just bend over and take it like a champion At the very least 3 fast units should be deployed, and you have one (chameleons). i am not counting salamanders cause you really do not want to sacrafice those. i would say get at least 2 units of skirmishers for redirecting, screening and killing enemy fast units. after that they could go poach some warmachines to wrap it up. they are truly awesome, and should be a central part of every army that wants to be competitive.

skinks help you own the movement phase, thats where most of the "generalship" is. if you play two straight up combat armies against each other you might as well play yahtzee... only that a deathstar of for example chosen chaos warriors would be the equivalent of getting to roll 5 extra dice. you are unlikely to win that game

*sigh* Dont know how ppl are thinking.... yes they can bend over vs alot of other deathstar straight up stats wise . But with Slann owning the magic, this changes. With INI 10 WS 10, the hunter just got hunted by TG.
And i dont exepect only to get off 1 magic, probably 3 of them.

I do miss skinks, but im not about to trade them for saurus. Not a chance. Saurus are one of the best Core choices in the game.

Skinks do their part ontop of a steggie or behind sallies.

When ppl are making their strategis, it sounds like the can re-direct a old Quake 1 AI

 

[wbarobinson]

Wrong! You do not take panic tests for losing handlers. BRB says they are ignored for most gaming purposes. Also, if you salamander is wounded 5 times, 1 or 2 pf those will allocate to handlers, meaning you are a dead lizard. Seeing as he comes with 3, or 6 in the case of 2 salamanders, and will misfire once every 2 games and eat and average of 2...that is 1 unit of 2 salamnder eating an average of 2 and only expecting 4 wardsaves, meaning, you have enough... Ward saves that attack for you... Pure awesome.

I would like a second opinion on that. But it might make sense. But please stop with the ward save frenzy.
You are just stubborn with it. How much will it save in hand to hand etc...

Your math hammer is off too. Sorry.

Where is my math off? In hand to hand combat, things work exactly the same way. You use the monster's WS and Toughness, afterwards, you allocate wounds to skinks on a roll of 5 or 6. Wardsaves... The only time they are not ward saves is when attacks are str4 or lower and then the armor of the salamander is only used when wounds are allocated to the salamander.

 

[Bananmats]

Where is Strewart at ?

 

[Dunya]

Agree on the Salamander talk, going in circles..

Hm, Lore of Light gives you the means to deal with units you would otherwise not be able to, yes.

However, you're forgetting about the flow of the game, not taking redirection results in a loss of initiative which is absolutely crucial. It'll mean that a skilled opponent will be able to pick his fights and run his magic phase on you while you just sit there, and before you even get to buff up your units they'll be dead or atleast on the back foot. Having the area based Light buffs up constantly is rarely possible due to the high casting values, so you want to have that buffer that lets you control the game, and crucially when and where to apply your magic.