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7th Ed. 2250 pt. Carno allcomers

T
Cold One

the ironfoot

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Hi everybody!
I'm working on this carnosaur list, just to field something else then a Slann. The general idea is to use Cold ones, steggie and the carnosaur to quickly eliminate the enemy by flank charging those foolish enough to charge my saurus and combo charges. This is my first Carno list, so I could use some comments :)

Oldblood 460
-Carnosaur, LA
-SotSR, ES, glyph necklace

Scar-veteran 185
-CO, LA, BSB
-BBoC, SotMP

Skink priest 385
-EotG, wardrums

Skink priest 105
-Cube of Darkness

16 saurus warriors 222
-spears, FC

3x10 skink skirmishers 210

5 cold one cavalry 205
-Standard, musician

5 cold one cavarly 245
-Standard, musician, Sun standard of Chotec

6 chameleon skinks 72

2x1 salamander hunting packs 160
-1 extra handler each

2249 points total!

I hope this is a good start :D

Merry Christmas!
 

I'm just going to be honest here.

I don't like it. You only have one block of infantry and it's only 16 models. You have 2 big monsters, 36 skirmishers and only 16 saurus!

I can see how this army would be played but it seems risky. It's always good to have a back up plan should your oldblood take a cannon or two in the chest.
 
thanks for your honest reply!

You do have a point in what you say, what would you advise? More blocks? what to drop then?
An other possibility is to drop the one saurus unit as well and get an other unit of cold ones for the saurus do slow me down.

What did you mean with a second plan? Do you think it isn't possible to win without the Saurus warriors or the Oldblood?

wow, lots of questions...I hope someone has got the time to answer some of them :P
 
I would drop the scar vet and a unit of CoC and add more saurus warriors.

Sorry about the vague first post I was at work and had to post hastily.

In the original list you really don't have much tactically except your big monsters and 10 cavalry models. Against a firing line army you'll be lucky to get one of the monsters into combat and probably won't get the CoC into combat. Should that happen you'll have to rely on 16 saurus and 36 skinks to destroy a whole army. However if you drop the hero and one unit of CoC you can add a lot more saurus (I like units of 20) use the skinks to screen and you'll increase your likely hood of reaching combat with enough troops to do some real damage.

Lets face it... CoC aren't that great. They only have armor save of 3+ with T4 which maked them a viable target for handgunners, crossbowmen and even archers. They are I2 so you're unlikely to ever attack first (unless you're playing another Lizardman army I guess), 5 of them will likely be way outnumbered, possibly even by enemy knights! Also fielind 5 knight units is risky because your opponent only has to kill 2 to force a break test.

I love chameleon skinks! When uned right they are awesome. I once killed a Blood Thirster with 5 chameleon skinks! They're a keeper.

I haven't done the math but at first glance it looks like you could increase the saurus from one unit of 16 to two units of 20 if you drop what I said above. This will give your army more versatility and actually make your opponent have to think about what you're going to do rather than just being able to read your mind during deployment. Also, in that configuration you'll have a black up plan in case your lord gets killed or your skink takes a cannon to the chest. I would hate to see a game blown by one lucky cannonball.

 
Cold One Cavalry have an armour save of 2+. And with M7 they should have very little trouble making it into CC. Once there, having likely been the unit that charged, they will tear almost anything apart with WS4 and S4 (S5 on the likely charge). Plus the cold ones themselves get to attack.
I have always thought the COC were a nearly essential part of the Lizardmen armies as they provide a very strong hammer unit that can stick around in the unlikely event that the unit they are fighting does not die/run away.
That being said, they are fire magnets and units of five can't take a turn of bad luck. Bump them up to six and they will be great.
Personally I think you've got too much skirmishing units. Drop one of the regular skink skirmishers and that will let you bump up your COC units to six. (six is pretty much the optimal number, small enough to be really mobile and yet still hard enough to kill almost everything).
 
My bad you're right they do have a 2+ armor save (I forgot to account for the COs scales. However I still don't think they're worth the points. Plus they're stupid so you may not be able to move them once or twice. Cold blooded helps but you really shouldn't rely on it. I just don't think 10 cav are worth what you sacrifice. I do agree that they are important to have however they should be a support unit to infantry.
 
I think your idea's are sound (very similar to a carno list I'm working on).

However, I would take the advice of thereal and nova. However, the saurus I would make the unpopular choice of running 15 withOUT spears. Why? Because the nature of a carno list is ALOT of hammers. But absolutely no anvils. So I use saurus as an anvil. The HW ups the save, and I know that I will have hell hammering down on whatever I charge. Plus I want to double charge saurus into the front, carno/CoC into the flank. That should break it first turn if your play it right so spears seem unessessary.

My core would be 3 or 4 units of skrimishers, with 2 units of 15 saurus.

just my two cents :)
 
sounds nice, I just got myself an extra box of the scaly footsloggers, so I should have enough saurus (40) to make a list with :F
But i think that i like the flexibility of the spear armed guys, as they can choose wether to use spears or HW. For just 1 point a model it's not that big an investment i would think. If i would ever get charged by something, i could choose to take spears and kill the opposing unit faster so i can march on.

You're working on a similar list? Do you have a link to it or something?

cheers
 
I haven't finalized my list enough to publish, still in the planning phase. Thats why I'm so interested in your post because its in a very similar vein as my questions :)

The main difference is I run two EOTG. In 2250 magic becomes a serious thing to contend with. I feel as though one leaves you without enough backup plans. However, I might just drop both and run two scroll caddies and use the points to bulk up on saurus, skinks, and CoC. My list currently doesn't have a scar-vet, and would love to have one mounted on a CO with a BSB.

But this post is about you and your list. :)

In your list do you have terradons?
 
So we face the same problems :D please consider this your topic too then :)

nope no terries, i use chameleons because the terradons are so crazy expensive and mail order only from gw site...I would like them, but that's future plans atm. I'm fairly happy with my chameleons as well, they perform just fine.
 
Personally I prefer the terradons due to flying, but I fully understand the economic limitations of a large fully metal model.

But, what I think you/we need to figure out is how many saurus is nessessary. Spears are nice if you are planning on being involved in combat for multiple rounds. But I feel as though if your going to run spears, it makes a better investment to run them 6 wide. Since 12 doesn't provide enough of an anvil I feel as tho 18 would be better. I guess thats why I made my current list with 15 without spears. Because I'm not wanting my saurus to kill- just hold the line and survive. But maybe it would be better to move up to 18 with spears.

One way to accomplish this list well would be to abandon the magic phase all together. My next post i'll put up my idea, but it goes something like this: 2 priests on foot with dispell scroll, oldblood on carno, scarvet BSB, fill the core with saurus and skinks, 2 units of CoC with full command, terras/camo skinks, and salamanders.

I feel this might be an interesting way to defeat the magic phase, and with items you can diminish shooting- plus the army is built around crushing speed so you shouldn't be spending to long in the open.

I dont know tho- i'll try to make up a list to give us something to talk about :)
 
that would sure be a pretty nice dispel scroll mass, we could also get one of the priest to use the diadem and an extra lvl for some extra dice. Might be good as well.

Looking forward to your next post :D I'll think of something too.

So how about something like this?

Oldblood
-Carnosaur, LA
-SotSR, ES, glyph necklace

Scar-veteran
-CO, LA, BSB
-BBoC, SotMP

Skink priest
-2 scrolls

Skink priest
-lvl2, diadem of power

16 saurus warriors (scar-vet here)
-spears, FC

18 saurus warriors
-spears, FC

3x10 skink skirmishers

5 cold one cavalry
-Standard, musician

5 cold one cavarly
-Standard, musician, Sun standard of Chotec

6 chameleon skinks

2x1 salamander hunting packs
-1 extra handler each

2245 points total!

So with two dispellers, we'll have to miss the engine but we get a 18 strong block of saurus in return :walkingdead:
an option would be to drop both the champions from the saurus units or one champion and a musician from a COC unit and add an other scroll to the mix.

cheers!
 
I'm thinking about running a list very similar to this. I mean, I have a slann so I could technically do either, but I like the idea of the carnosaur with CoC so much better.

Defensively you gain nothing by putting a level 2 skink on an EotG. So you could save a lot of points by taking just two, or even three, level two skinks with dispell scrolls and still have tons of points for more conventional units.
I mean... could you possibly take the saurus out all together? Everything you have moves so fast that the one unit will get left behind. Skrox units could fit the bill if you want something that is fast yet still has static combat res.
If you keep the unit of saurus, take 2 groups of 15 so that they can support eachother. Then, your army isn't as focused on rolling up the flank so much as seperating units with skirmishers from the main body and crushing them or drawing them into your saurus only to be pounced on the sides. Either way, you're very fast and have some mean units at your disposal.
 
yea, well, skrox don't appeal to me at all accually, i just edited my last post with a new list, with the 2 dispel priests in there and some extra saurus.

I have a more tactical question, that carno... should it be with the COC with chotec banner? that would be sweet i think, but running him solo has it's advantages too i guess.
 
Well, you have a couple of option. One is running him behind them. If he's in the unit, he suffers stupidity as well whereas if he's behind them he's still blocked (not being a large target) but can move around them if they go stupid.

Another is in the unit, like you say, and he gets benefits from their standard. He could take huanchi's totem too which makes him move faster.
 
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