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7th Ed. 2250 Lizards building towards a tournament

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Jungle Swarm

Hodges

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Hey all. Im just about to start building my first Lizardmen army (got 3-4 others so not a beginner) and as always I like to build towards a solid tournament list. This is what I have come up with so far:

Slaan w/ BSB, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Rod of the Storm, Bane Head, Dispell Scroll - 455
Skink Priest w/ Lvl2, Plaque of Tepok, Engine of the Gods - 405
Scar-Vet w/ GW, LA, Shield, Charm of the Jaguar Warrior - 124

17 Saurus w/ Spears, Standard, Musician - 222
18 Saurus w/ Spears, Standard, Musician - 234
11 Skinks w/ Musician, 1 Kroxigor - 116
10 Skinks - 50
10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

3 Terradons - 90
3 Terradons - 90
6 Chameleon Skinks w/ Stalker - 78
Stegadon - 235

1 Salamander w/ Extra Handlers - 80

Comes out to 2249. My local scene is moving towards a comped enviroment, so I want the army to be hard, but not OTT. I like the look of this list - strong magic, a solid Saurus base, Skinks for baiting and a SKrox unit for extra flexibility. I love the Chameleon models, so they definitely make the list. Second Steggy gives me a bit of extra hitting power too.

Im not sure on the Rod of the Storm at the moment. Ive chosen it as a bit of extra insurance incase harrassing units start chasing my Slann. He is running on his own so it could come in handy. I could drop it though and up my SKrox unit to 15 strong instead though.

What are your thoughts? Any suggestions?
 
I'd drop the 18 spear saurus and the chameleon skinks to be replaced with 16TG+mus+std. That slann build has no extra survivability and would suffer from poor visibility, especially since he would have to hide from cannons etc due to a lack of look out sir/TG padding.

Since you don't want to drop the chameleons (just re-read your post) I'd still say that TG instead of spear saurus would be vital. I really really really would drop the chameleons, but second best to that would be maybe to drop the salamander, promote the steg to an ancient, and slip in the 16TG+mus+std having remove the 18 saurus leaving you with 2247 points. You could drop the 2nd terradons instead of the salamander but I'd prefer the terradons as the salamander panic is most effective against armies we're already quite god against (hordes with low ld - deny a flank, disrupt their movement so that saurus dont get swamped).

Anyway I've said enough: get some TG, your slann will do nothing but thank you!
 
I see what your saying regarding the TG, but im not a huge fan of having the Slann anchored in one spot every game. Makes the list a lot more predictable, plus any of the really big nasties (Bloodthirsters and the like) would have a field day on that unit.

I agree with you that the Slann could do with some more protection though. Would it be worth dropping Becalming Cogitation for the Ethereal ability instead? If I wanted to be really cheeky, I could drop the Rod and take the War Banner instead - most units wouldnt hit him, and he would have +2 combat res. Could be a fun surprise tactic in certain situtaions... :D
 
Yeah that could work but it still has the potential to fail miserably, such as if the attacking unit had higher CR or, much more likely, if the attacking unit was something like a winged nasty with magic attacks ie a bloodthirster or dragon or anything else that doesn't come up often in real game but comes up so very very often in tournies.

Also the point of TG is that the slann is that he is not limited to hiding, ie he is a lot less anchored, plus he has large target vision ie he can see more and cast on more things and so predicting your play with him has more options, therefore is less predictable. (Sorry about the proof-speak, just spent 3 hours doing practice maths papers.)

Saying that a bloodthirster would have a field day on TG is not actually saying much. If a bloodthirster would have a field day on a unit of beefy TG, would he have a field day on a solo slann? It's not limited to physical magic attacks. If magic immune they could still blast you with magic, eg the DE magic heavy list (with or without Pegasus riders) would also mean that you are hiding. If your slann is hiding he can also only cast magic missiles through the skink. Waste of a slann IMO. As BSB and general if he dies you've lost it. Even if magic immune he is still very vulnerable, and debilitated in his casting ability.

Much of this is beside the point. A bloodthirster should have little ability to charge your TG as you have soooo much movement control with two units of terradons, three units of skinks, and a unit of chameleons. Their mass shooting would hurt him a lot, you could even send a couple of the larger skink units to hunt him down somewhat. Even if he gets on a hill for a flying charge you can place skirmishers or the salamander so close that there is no space on that flank to charge into. There is no way of arguing that TG are a bad choice, or is a choice tactically inferior to other slann options, especially if you are relying on tow large infantry blocks anyway, since TG are simply so very pewpew. Their disadvantages are directly accounted for by the strengths of all of those skinky movement control units!
 
Dumbledore has made a good set of posts in this thread that I'll agree with wholely. The temple guard's rules coupled with the Slann's rules really go together like "white on rice." You'll ultimately suffer more disadvantages from dropping the Slann into a unit of regular Sarus (he has to be in the front row for starters). I feel that the advantages of putting your expensive Slann into a unit of TG far outweigh the disadvantages (unless you're making the unit ridiculously large, lowering the amount of other troops you can field). His ability to continue to cast magic missiles and stay in the second rank will give him survivability that will allow you to drop defensive disciplines you've been contemplating adding.

I also think that you will find that temple guard are very resiliant. They'll stand up to almost anything and can be an incredible anvil (think HW/SH) in the worst situations. If, with all the other tools you have, are unable to keep a bloodthirster off your flank, you've most likely lost the game already. Also, if your TG unit ends up running out on you, the games pretty much gone with your expensive Slann going with it as well. Comparitively speaking, if a Slann is in the unit of Sarus Warriors, they don't get the benefit of stubborn leadership and if you loose the combat by a lot, you'll be waving good bye to your Slann much faster than if he was protected by the ones sworn to protect him (EG TG).

Other than that, it looks like you have a solid tourney list. You'll enjoy having the JSoD at your disposal considering that you'll see a few more opportunities to utilize him with the strength you're bringing in the magic phase.

Best of luck, and hope you use something from my commentary, even if it is a fleeting thought.
 
Those are pretty compelling arguments. Ill have to try them out and see if they suit my gamestyle. Ive never really used a full defensive unit - my last armies have been Dark Elves, SOC Khorne Daemons and Tomb Kings.

The only thing I would be concerned about is my potential comp score. With the heavy magic, two Stegs (including EotG) and multiple Terradon units, the addition of the TG could push my army into the bottom score tiers and possibly even a re-submit. Would it be worth dropping the second Steggy for the TG? The 16 TG with full command comes out to 291 points. I could trim the 18 Saurus down to 12 and drop the standard which would leave me with 28 points - if I drop the Rod of the Storm I can afford another unit of 10 Skinks.

So the list would look like this:

Slaan w/ BSB, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Bane Head, Dispell Scroll - 430
Skink Priest w/ Lvl2, Plaque of Tepok, Engine of the Gods - 405
Scar-Vet w/ GW, LA, Shield, Charm of the Jaguar Warrior - 124

17 Saurus w/ Spears, Standard, Musician - 222
12 Saurus w/ Spears, Musician - 150
11 Skinks w/ Musician, 1 Kroxigor - 116
10 Skinks - 50
10 Skinks - 50
10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

16 Temple Guard with Full Command - 291
3 Terradons - 90
3 Terradons - 90
6 Chameleon Skinks w/ Stalker - 78

1 Salamander w/ Extra Handlers - 80

Comes out to 2246. Should do decently on comp with all my core selections, and the single Steg. Ive gone with the champion in the TG unit as a defensive measure against the really hard characters. The overkill wont matter and he coud save 3-4 TG for one turn.

Thoughts on this list?
 
Extremely similar to my 2k list, therefore I like it!
 
I'm not sure I'd consider TG fully defensive. I prefer to think that they plough through the field with the slann blasting so much magic that the enemy can't ignore them. They then have to run the skink gauntlet to get to the TG and probably get ground down anyway...
 
After looking at your list again, that looks like a fairly solid list. I know I'd do a scant few things differently, but you have the right idea. I think you'll also do much better as far as comp is concerned with this list considering the single stegadon. It is magic heavy, but remember that most of the character mechanics of your army operate off of magic and you won't have the rank and file troop strength to outnumber your foe (think JSoD). Best of luck, and let us know how it works out for you!
 
Cheers for the help guys. Looking at it objectively, the second list is a lot better. An extra baiting unit, plus a full extra block (TG) for the loss of one Stegadon.

I initially thought the TG unit would hinder my Slann's movement too much, but after re-reading the TG rules he is much better off in there - for the reasons you guys listed. Its pretty much worth it for the large target ability alone. Ive read a few battle reports using a lone Slann and you really do have to perfect with your positioning otherwise he wont be that effective. And considering how much he costs I need him to be effective every turn.

From a tournament perspective, its also handy as it locks up a lot of my points into an extremely hard target. I can see my army being very hard to draw points from, as everything expensive is tough (Engine, Slann + TG) and everything else is cheap as.

So yeah, consider me sold. :D Ill be getting the army over the next few weeks, so once I have play-tested this a bit ill let you know how it goes.
 
Yeah you have massive point denial. All I can say is dominate movement and be cautious with your EotG. He is the one most vulnerable high-value target you have and if he dies early it could do serious damage to your magic phase and make things unravel a bit. I know that if I was playing against this my vague and general first thoughts would be to try and take down the terradons and try and kill that priest, then the rest would be more easy.
 
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