8th Ed. 2250 competitive-nutella list

[Teyacapan]

Competitive-nutella since I try to make it work but there is a lot of nutella, if you know that chocholate.

It's made with what I have now and what I likes more



Slann Mage-Priest
Lore of High Magic
Battle Standard Bearer
Becalming Cogitation , Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone

Saurus Scar-Veteran
Light Armour, Shield
Carnosaur
The Egg of Quango

Skink Chief
Light Armour, Shield
The Cloak of Feathers

Saurus Warriors, full command, 28 models

Saurus Warrior, full Command, 18 models

Bastiladon, solar engine

Cold One Riders, full Command, 7 models, spears

Temple Guard, full Command, 20 models

Salamander Hunting pack

All weighting in at 2233 total.

Can I have more than 1 enchanted item per model?
If so, Id like to give the potion of speed to the scar veteran to be sure, elven apart, to strike first that time that I need.
But also considerin I can stack initiative with high magic its Just wondering.

Simply the idea is the bastiladon helping keeping high initiative, moving tightly in a phalanx to maximise his bonus and the spell from high magic.

 

[Scalenex]

Can I have more than 1 enchanted item per model?
If so, Id like to give the potion of speed to the scar veteran to be sure, elven ap.

Nope, max of one Enchanted Item, Magical Armor, Magical Weapon, Arcane Item, and/or Talisman per character.

The list is balanced with no glaring flaws. A good starter list for a a Predatory/Traditional Hybrid list

But here comes the nitpicking. Feel free to ignore anything below you don't like.

Flying Skink of Death

Models are probably a limiting factor at your early stage of collecting, but a Terradon or Ripper costs about the same as the Cloak of Feathers and gives your Skink Chief slightly better defense, considerably better offense and more magic item options not spending over half of your 50 point allowance on one item. A Skink Chief with a flying mount can actually carry the Egg of Quango making him a very good delivery system for the magical item.

If you are set on using the FSOD as is, I would recommend keeping him hear a block of Saurus for a 4+ Look Out Sir roll until you are ready to "launch" him at the enemy.

While a groundling unit cannot join a unit of flyers, a FSOD with the Cloak of Feathers (instead of a Terradon or Ripper) can join a unit of infantry. If you field him with Skirmishers you give him a round or two of protection before "launching" him and you may or may not catch your opponent off guard with this ploy.

Whether your FSOD rides a flying mount or uses the Cloak of Feathers, I recommend the Charmed Shield as a bit of insurance against things like cannon balls and bolt throwers. It barely costs more than a regular shield and functions like a regular shield in addition to it's one use hit negating ability.


Saurus Warriors

I am mildly curious as to why one Saurus Warrior block is 18 strong and the other is 28 strong as opposed to two units of 23. If your answer is "the bigger one has shields and the smaller one has hand weapons" that answer is valid.

Slann

The Slann should definitely take the Channeling Staff if you are taking Harmonic Convergence. A Slann with Harmonic Convergence will generate on average 3 extra power dice and 3 extra dispel dice over a six turn game. A Slann with HC and the Channeling Staff will double this yield.

I would give your Slann (or your Temple Guard) the Standard of Discipline or Banner of Eternal Flame if you can squeeze the points in. Maybe both.

20 is enough Temple Guard for 2250 points and a High Magic Slann, but you probably want to invest in more if you play a higher points size game or switch to a lore with a less defensive focus than High Magic.

Salamander

A solo Salamander should spring for an extra handler (aka an extra snack). That way even a worse case scenario of eating three handlers in one go leaves you with one still alive.

Carnosaur

Not sure if the Egg of Quango is a good idea. A Scar Veteran on a Carnosaur already has a lot of of killing power. My personal preference would be to use the Egg of Quango points to buy the Scar Vet some defensive items OR buy the Carnosaur Bloodroar or Loping Stride OR give the Egg of Quango to the Slann so the Temple Guard get better CR their first round.

Also because it's so cheap, a spear might be a good idea for the Scar Veteran. The difference between Strength 5 and 6 is pretty significant, even if you only get it on the charge round.

 

[Teyacapan]

Wow thanks for analysis!

So, Just 1 magic item per character?
One weapon or One armor or One enchanted and so on?

I'll try to follow your order;

Skink chief:
I was actually thinking about a terradon for him, for all the reason you said, and the choice is purely model depending, simply I like the model I've painted, and want to play it, but on terradon is simply better.
Unsure on the egg, seems to be a bit fragile and bullet magnet.

Saurus:
Were intended both with spears.
I've initially set for 2 units 28 strong, then filed down the points from Just one.
However, why should be good with the smaller one with hand weapons?
23 and 23 simply will not fill nicely the ranks

Carnosaur:
I completly forget about looping strike, that i can squeeze in and the spear, also squeezable.
Bringing the total to 2250 net.

Salamander:
Now I understand why the 4th... To avoid being alone with an unlucky misfire..

Slann:
Can use the egg from back rank?
The idea was to use on carnosaur like an article I've red to flank the battle line and try to make Him attack all the units after pursuing the first, then second etc while already engaged on front, and the egg used as a booster.

 

[Scalenex]

Wow thanks for analysis!

So, Just 1 magic item per character?
One weapon or One armor or One enchanted and so on?

No each characters is limited to one magic item per category. So a Saurus Scar Old Blood could theoretically have a magic weapon, some magic armor, an enchanted item, and a talisman.

I'll try to follow your order;

Skink chief:
I was actually thinking about a terradon for him, for all the reason you said, and the choice is purely model depending, simply I like the model I've painted, and want to play it, but on terradon is simply better.
Unsure on the egg, seems to be a bit fragile and bullet magnet.

Saurus:
Were intended both with spears.
I've initially set for 2 units 28 strong, then filed down the points from Just one.
However, why should be good with the smaller one with hand weapons?

Hand Weapons and shields provide a parry save all the time. Spears provide an extra rank of attacks when not charging and when you maintain three ranks. Assuming you are fielding your Sauri five wide, you lose attacks back every model that dips below 15. HWS shield Saurus don't lose attacks until they dip below 10.

23 and 23 simply will not fill nicely the ranks

Most good gamers are OCD. Some OCD players want all their units to have a clean number of ranks. Some OCD players want to make sure they spend EVERY single last point. Other OCD players want their infantry blocks to all be the same size. I prefer even ranks, but I squeezing every last point more. Besides I run my Saurus six-wide almost as often as I run them five wide (against weak enemies you want the extra frontage for more attacks, against powerful enemies you want to go five wide to maximize static CR and steadfast chances)

Carnosaur:
I completly forget about looping strike, that i can squeeze in and the spear, also squeezable.
Bringing the total to 2250 net.

Salamander:
Now I understand why the 4th... To avoid being alone with an unlucky misfire..

Yup. On a related note, if you field two (or more) Salamanders in one unit, the snack is a candy purchase because you can theoretically have one Handler handling six Salamanders

Slann:
Can use the egg from back rank?

Yes, the exact wording of the Egg's description is that you "nominate one enemy unit in base contact with the bearer or his unit" making it ideal for Slann in Temple Guard (course the Egg is useful in the hands of ANY LM character.

The idea was to use on carnosaur like an article I've red to flank the battle line and try to make Him attack all the units after pursuing the first, then second etc while already engaged on front, and the egg used as a booster.

Valid strategy, I would not fault you for keeping the Egg on the Carnosaur.

 

[Teyacapan]

Well, the 2 units of sauri, with both Command and numbering 46 models total fulfil the point minimum for troop choice at 2250. So, every possible way of mixing is ok.

I intended to use them in 4 ranks of front 7, or front 6 and 5 ranks.
And the smaller 3 ranks, front 6.

I'm a bit concerned about a little front and long ranks formation, a very big target for a side charge

 

[Teyacapan]

With the channelling staff I have the bonus to channell, and with Harmonic convergence roll 3 dice total.

But if I have 3 positive results, will channell 3, or Just 1?

And if the roll for dice is double six, can I channell over it? Wondering if can have 15dice or Max is Just 12.


Excuse me for that but last time I played fantasy was while counting the levels to get dice back 10 years ago I think

 

[Scalenex]

With the channelling staff I have the bonus to channell, and with Harmonic convergence roll 3 dice total.

Harmonic Convergence lets you channel with three dice. Channeling Staff makes all three of your dice channel on 5+ rather than 6 alone.

But if I have 3 positive results, will channell 3, or Just 1?

You get three positive results, then you get three dice, unless the three dice would take your total over 12.

And if the roll for dice is double six, can I channell over it? Wondering if can have 15dice or Max is Just 12.

If you roll double 6 for Winds of Magic, there is no point in rolling for your channeling attempts. When I roll 11, I tend to roll 2 or three channeling dice so I "lose" some channels. I don't mind. 12 is great.

Excuse me for that but last time I played fantasy was while counting the levels to get dice back 10 years ago I think

 

[Teyacapan]

Aha! Good!

Well since the medium is 7-8 dice it's good!

And also works for dispersion, right?

Sadly I haven't the point to fit it in.


Well, removing looping stride I can.

What I lose removing looping stride? Just swiftstride right?
Maybe is worth of it

 

[Scalenex]

Aha! Good!

Well since the medium is 7-8 dice it's good!

And also works for dispersion, right?

If by dispersion you mean "dispel dice" then yes. That's why the Channeling Staff Harmonic Convergence combo is so potent.

Sadly I haven't the point to fit it in.


Well, removing looping stride I can.

What I lose removing looping stride? Just swiftstride right?
Maybe is worth of it

I would say yes, it is worth it to drop loping stride for the channeling staff

 

[Teyacapan]

Yes I was intending dispel dice
howewer how swiftstride could be useful for carnosaur? :/
Was reading the swarm discussion from the hand book and saw that a guy made an analysis of an horde formation where he calculated 20 predatory attacks, I'm assuming Just front rank and then 30 more not predatory.

But... The rule says simply whanever a model rolls a 6 on attack, why he divided it?

Does support attacks ignore this rule? And of so, just for a rulebook precisation instead of an army book precisation, since the rule of the LM book RAW, for me implies predatory also for support attacks, or not?

 

[Scalenex]

Yes I was intending dispel dice
howewer how swiftstride could be useful for carnosaur? :/
Was reading the swarm discussion from the hand book and saw that a guy made an analysis of an horde formation where he calculated 20 predatory attacks, I'm assuming Just front rank and then 30 more not predatory.

But... The rule says simply whanever a model rolls a 6 on attack, why he divided it?

Does support attacks ignore this rule? And of so, just for a rulebook precisation instead of an army book precisation, since the rule of the LM book RAW, for me implies predatory also for support attacks, or not?

Well the community is very bitterly divided on whether PF apply to the supporting ranks or not. The debate thread on this has over 330 replies and that's AFTER our illustrious admin, the Red Devil deleted the offensive posts.

There is no clear consensus. Don't worry about what the greater online community thinks, just ask your gaming opponent what he thinks (or the event organizer if you are at a tournament). I would prefer that we get PF on all supporting attacks (if only so I don't need to bother splitting dice), but the mathematical difference between full PF attacks and PF only for models in base contact with the enemy is so small that it's not worth arguing over.

We are stuck without a definitive answer until GW updates the FAQs and they haven't made a full FAQ for an army book since Warriors of Chaos. High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Daemons and Dwarfs all lack an FAQ Errata. The Wood Elve's FAQ is laughably sparse. Most assume that GW is not going to release a new FAQ until 9th edition.

In addition to the PF debate, there is debate on whether HE Skycutter chariots can march. The model has Fly and units with Fly can march as part of the rule descriptions but the BRB also says Chariots can't march. They could have solved this by giving chariots Hover in place of Fly but did not.

There is debate on whether Wood Elves can arm two units in one army with the same special arrows since they are technically called Enchanted Items and you cannot have duplicate Enchanted Items in one army. But non-character units don't really get magic items.

There are probably a couple others too.

 

[Teyacapan]

Ok, so is the same black gaps as my familiar 40k

Sincerly, the first time I red the rule considered it with PF.

And thats why, the temple guard use the modified strenght given by helbard, right?

So all the "special rules" from weapons or army peculiarities like the elf striking first will apply normally.
Otherwise we could argue that elf support attacks must be resolved with their initiative instead of striking first.
So a support attack is simply another attack with same rule and strenght, an Elector Count with a Rune Fang from the second rank will do a single attack with all the special rules of the weapon, so mine will have PF.

I'll probably will use it this way, also becouse I'm the chairman of my Gaming Association