AoS 2018 is gonna be another tough year

[darren watson]

Got my first taste of the new death last night and although I managed a major win, I ended the game with 4 models, while my opponent Tony Kirby had every single model he had started with..

The grindier meta that started after the Fyreslayers got their new allegiance ability has continued to get even more grindier with the recent releases from Maggotkin and Legions of Death and the tools we have available are few and far between.

Kroaknado deals with the elite armies out there but is up against it when facing these high resistance horde armies.
I thought a Thunderquake would be a good counter, but after playing a few games, the low model count is a real issue and a distinct disadvantage in many of the scenarios.

Sunclaw seems like a sensible answer, but even then, doesn't have the same staying power as these other hordes but costs just as much, if not more..

I'm going to be giving the problem some real consideration over the next few months and would be really interested in how you guys are tooling up to take the fight to the hordes and still be able to give the elite armies a bloody nose?

I think it maybe a case of looking towards our allies the SCE more and more to supplement our forces with some real damage dealers that don't require as many character buffs and synergies throughout the game. 10 Protectors/Decimators is a serious consideration for me atm..

 

[Killer Angel]

we're still a mid-high tier army.
Of course we are doomed by the fact that we were the first one to receive a battletome, so we will be stuck to it for a long time.
However the GHB 2017 was a boost for us, and now we are still one of the most mobile army around, and that's not a small thing.

 

[darren watson]

we're still a mid-high tier army.
Of course we are doomed by the fact that we were the first one to receive a battletome, so we will be stuck to it for a long time.
However the GHB 2017 was a boost for us, and now we are still one of the most mobile army around, and that's not a small thing.

I think you're right for one off games, but not over 5-6 games in competitive play.
We don't have the same take on all comer list options. I could be wrong and just not seen it yet, I hope I'm wrong..

 

[Aginor]

I think you are right, IMO our problem can easily be described as follows:
We can build counter lists against everything, but it is hard to build ONE list that works against everything.

 

[PJetski]

Have you tried a Thunderquake with 9x Kroxigors? It eats horde units for breakfast.

 

[Aginor]

Have you tried a Thunderquake with 9x Kroxigors? It eats horde units for breakfast.

With some magical support (Starlight and Mystic Shield) that could really work well...

 

[Killer Angel]

EotG, 2 basti, Slann and 9 kroxy? Sounds FUN...

 

[Aginor]

Yeah. Although I wonder if their damage output is really better than that of 12 Razordons. (Even though only 4 of the Razordons can be in the bataillon).

 

[PJetski]

EotG, 2 basti, Slann and 9 kroxy? Sounds FUN...

Slann (vast intellect)
EOTG
3x10 Skinks
1x9 Kroxigors (3 moonhammers)
Bastiladon (ark)
Stegadon (bow)

170 left over to summon an Astrollith into position
Usually try to get the +1 charge constellation (you dont really need another +1 casting or reroll hit1)

Yeah. Although I wonder if their damage output is really better than that of 12 Razordons. (Even though only 4 of the Razordons can be in the bataillon).

Assuming you can reroll hits and wounds:

6 Drakebite Mauls are 24 attacks, 18 hits, 16 wounds @ 2 damage = 32 wounds
3 Moonhammers are variable based on targets, Rend-1, 2 damage
@1 attack per model - 2 wounds @ 2 damage = 4 wounds
@5 attacks per model - 10 wounds @ 2 damage = 20 wounds
@10 attacks per model - 20 wounds @ 2 damage = 40 wounds
9 Jaw attacks, ~7 hits, 6 wounds, Rend-1, 1 damage = 6 wounds
Total: 42+ wounds

4 Razordons in Battalion - 28 attacks, ~25 hits, ~19 wounds @ 1 damage
8 Razordons out of Battalion - 56 attacks, 50 hits, 25 wounds @ 1 damage
Total: 44 wounds

Conclusion: If the Kroxigors with Moonhammers have more than 1 target each then the Kroxigors will do more damage in the Combat Phase than the Razordons will do in the Shooting Phase

Things worth noting in this comparison:
The Kroxigors will attack in every combat phase if they get stuck in, while Razordons only shoot on your turn.
Razordons have Rend if within 6"
Razordons have that cool 'overwatch' ability
Kroxigors are 1 less drop
Kroxigor Jaws can roll high and do some serious mortal wounds
Getting a +1 hit buff (through something like Damned scenery) is a massive boost to the Kroxigors, less so for the Razordons
Kroxigors require a lot of space to get all their attacks in, so they're vulnerable to flanking
Kroxigors are far more durable because they are all in the battalion rerolling saves and you can stack MS + Starlight on that single unit
Razordons can charge in to get more attacks in the combat phase

 

[Aginor]

Slann (vast intellect)
EOTG
3x10 Skinks
1x9 Kroxigors (3 moonhammers)
Bastiladon (ark)
Stegadon (bow)

170 left over to summon an Astrollith into position
Usually try to get the +1 charge constellation (you dont really need another +1 casting or reroll hit1)


Assuming you can reroll hits and wounds:

6 Drakebite Mauls are 24 attacks, 18 hits, 16 wounds @ 2 damage = 32 wounds
3 Moonhammers are variable based on targets, Rend-1, 2 damage
@1 attack per model - 2 wounds @ 2 damage = 4 wounds
@5 attacks per model - 10 wounds @ 2 damage = 20 wounds
@10 attacks per model - 20 wounds @ 2 damage = 40 wounds
9 Jaw attacks, ~7 hits, 6 wounds, Rend-1, 1 damage = 6 wounds
Total: 42+ wounds

4 Razordons in Battalion - 28 attacks, ~25 hits, ~19 wounds @ 1 damage
8 Razordons out of Battalion - 56 attacks, 50 hits, 25 wounds @ 1 damage
Total: 44 wounds

Conclusion: If the Kroxigors with Moonhammers have more than 1 target each then the Kroxigors will do more damage in the Combat Phase than the Razordons will do in the Shooting Phase

Things worth noting in this comparison:
The Kroxigors will attack in every combat phase if they get stuck in, while Razordons only shoot on your turn.
Razordons have Rend if within 6"
Razordons have that cool 'overwatch' ability
Kroxigors are 1 less drop
Kroxigor Jaws can roll high and do some serious mortal wounds
Getting a +1 hit buff (through something like Damned scenery) is a massive boost to the Kroxigors, less so for the Razordons
Kroxigors require a lot of space to get all their attacks in, so they're vulnerable to flanking
Kroxigors are far more durable because they are all in the battalion rerolling saves and you can stack MS + Starlight on that single unit
Razordons can charge in to get more attacks in the combat phase

Good post! Really something to consider...

 

[Canas]

Maybe we'l see the rise of the stegadon with flamethrowers and kroxigors? Both of those seem to not be utilized much currently while being effective against hordes. And since they both also have a decent attacks besides the anti-horde mechanic, they're also not immeadiatly useless against more elite armies. Thunderquake & heavenswatch seem briljant for this, healing to keep your kroxigor and stegadon in the fight for longer and some re-rolls. The other troops can be taken as support or to deal with elite characters.

Alternativly, an eternal starhost becomes amazing if all we have to face is hordes of skeletons. Those things won't be doing any mortal wounds and with re-rollable 2+ saves you're not going to take down a lot of guards any time soon', throw in a starlight for good measure and we should be fine.

Also, our saurus banners, carnosaur & troglodons are going to make the battleshock phase a disaster for hordes when employed properly.

To be honest, a horde-focussed meta seems fairly beneficial to us. We have more dedicated anti-horde stuff than we have anti-elite stuff & seeing as hordes tend to have poor stats to begin with "normal" attacks don't suffer as much. No need for high rend and mortal wounds which we now need to deal with re-rollable 2+ saves on healing 10+ wound monstrousities. Which is beneficial for us as we have a great deal of "mediocre" troops with decent stats but lacking the sheer number of attacks, or rend, to get passed high saves. If the saves aren't as insane anymore most of our stuff actually becomes a threat.

Admittadly, that is assuming the hordes then don't come with stupid stats or silly synergies. Hordes that deal moral wounds or that can achieve 2+ re-rollable saves reliably will basicly put us back in the current situation just with more models on the board...

 

[Killer Angel]

Slann (vast intellect)
EOTG
3x10 Skinks
1x9 Kroxigors (3 moonhammers)
Bastiladon (ark)
Stegadon (bow)

170 left over to summon an Astrollith into position

Thinking about it...
9 kroxy are 36 wounds. Consider also the 3 dinosaurs, the slann and the skinks.

with those 170 pts, I would use an elven archmage as ally, giving a 6+ ward save in a 18" bubble, basically to all of my units. with 50 pts remaining, you are free to add a salamander.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Thinking about it...
9 kroxy are 36 wounds. Consider also the 3 dinosaurs, the slann and the skinks.

with those 170 pts, I would use an elven archmage as ally, giving a 6+ ward save in a 18" bubble, basically to all of my units. with 50 pts remaining, you are free to add a salamander.

Thought we could only have SCE as allies?

 

[Aginor]

Yeah you would have to play Grand Alliance Order to do that, which isn't worth it IMO.

 

[Killer Angel]

Yeah you would have to play Grand Alliance Order to do that, which isn't worth it IMO.

True. But still tempting...

 

[Canas]

anyone seen the newest daughters of khaine post yet? Yet another faction with mortal wounds protection.... God I wish they'd start updating our stuff already..

 

[IggyStarhost]

Does anyone know in which rate they bring out updates? Like IF we ever get updated, when could that be?

 

[Canas]

Does anyone know in which rate they bring out updates? Like IF we ever get updated, when could that be?

Given the amount of factions still unsupported and the rate... somewhere in the next milenium?

 

[Wazz]

I really wish we could do mortal wounds like some of the other armies, or stop them on Saurus guard at least. I'm a big fan of the flamethrower Steg. With our teleport and the alpha it can get into range and has an easy charge if you roll high. -3 rend with the horns makes everything get a little spooked.

 

[Wazz]

A friend of mine came up with a possible idea for hordes as well, Shadowstrike with 6 terradons with sunleech bolas. Go 2nd drop in terradons, have a 40 model skink unit teleport hold things up hope for the double turn do a fly by, bolas and skink shots. Keep the skinks falling back towards your remaining force(2 bastiladons, 2 units of 3Kroxi, skinks skink priests)have 3 rippers to fly around toward objectives sorry this is so jumbled just waking up lol.