AoS 2000 Points (Thunderquake), also some rules check.

[Fruzzle]

Long time lurker, First time poster!

I intend to attend an AoS tournament and would love some input on the list (Is it strong enough, anything I can/should change) and I have a couple of rules questions, so I'll ask them first.

Thunderquake starhost allows you to either Re-roll charge and wound OR re-roll hits and saves.

Than, the astrolith banner allows you to: Re-roll failed hits.

My question: Does this work on shooting as well as combat?

Then, onto my list!

Allegiance: Order


Leaders



Saurus Astrolith Bearer - Artefact : Phoenix Stone


Engine of the Gods - Artefact : Phoenix Stone


Slann Starmaster General Command Trait : Tenacious

• 
  
  
  3x 10 x Skinks
  
  - Bolt Spitter & Star Bucklers
  
  
  2x 5 x Chameleon Skinks
  
  
  1 x Salamander
  
  
  2x 3 x Skink Handlers
  
  2x Bastiladon
  
  
  
  Thunderquake Starhost
  
  Total: 2000/2000

The idea is pretty simple, turtle up around the buffs, than use the turtles to shoot very well!
after a couple of turns move up and shoot more !
the chameleon skinks are there to help vs. warmachines etc. and get up the table.

the second unit of skink handlers is there because I had 40 points left, but I figure I can also use them to sit on objectives etc. outside of all my bubbles.

What I like about the list is that it has crazy good synergy, the Slann helps the engine and helps regrow wounds on all the monsters, the re-roll save comes from multiple sources, the slann is not really a deadweight in this list, it can make one turtle very resilient but can also help with mortal wounds and skink moral (if I'm reading his special power right)
The banner buffs everyone, and because of the size of the monsters even in the bubble doesn't mean very close together.

So please help, will this list work? Thanks in advance!

Fruzzle

 

[ljwylde]

I think it could definitely work. With the astrolith bearer, it is always vital th at you maximise his utility. Always think: was his impact worth 160 points? Or could another unit do better/ cheaper. He is a good pick though in a castled up formation with slaan.

 

[Fruzzle]

I think it could definitely work. With the astrolith bearer, it is always vital th at you maximise his utility. Always think: was his impact worth 160 points? Or could another unit do better/ cheaper. He is a good pick though in a castled up formation with slaan.

Well I thought it buff my Bastiladon shooting, especially since the to hit roll is the 4+, so re-rolling that would be great.
Than it would also help all my skink shooting. Finally, my arcane bolt range would be boosted and easier to cast.


One change I considered is
- slann
- chameleon skinks
-1 unit of handlers

Than add Kroak to take more advantage of the banner. But he'd be very vulnerable without the re-roll armour saves and without a guardian, so I'm hesitant to do that.

 

[Crowsfoot]

I think the slann is not worth the points same with 1 salamander it won't last long, you could have a starpriest and a priest with points left over and maybe get another salamander?

2*5 Chamo skinks can cause major problems for your opponent don't drop them.

Loads of options really.

 

[Aginor]

IMO the Astrolith Bearer is worth its weight in gold. The only real downside is the lack of movement it creates. If your enemy has artillery you are probably toast.

 

[Bowser]

Welcome aboard!
Yes, the buffs for astrolith and Thunderquake work in the shooting.
This army is decent, but high shooting armies will likely take this list.
I would drop the extra handlers and get a Gryph-Hound.
And then I would drop the salamander and the other handlers for either a starpriest.
Or drop the sally and handlers for an eternity warden to protect the slann.
You have a quarter of your army in the slann/engine combo. So you need to keep them alive and fighting. You're going to have to get your army to an objective and then turtle up. A smart player is going to pick off your astrolith and then engine as fast as possible, skinks are great for blocking this, and chameleons should be good to pick off war machines though.
Solid list, but I don’t think it will win a tournament.

 

[Fruzzle]

I think the slann is not worth the points same with 1 salamander it won't last long, you could have a starpriest and a priest with points left over and maybe get another salamander?

2*5 Chamo skinks can cause major problems for your opponent don't drop them.

Loads of options really.

Welcome aboard!
Yes, the buffs for astrolith and Thunderquake work in the shooting.
This army is decent, but high shooting armies will likely take this list.
I would drop the extra handlers and get a Gryph-Hound.
And then I would drop the salamander and the other handlers for either a starpriest.
Or drop the sally and handlers for an eternity warden to protect the slann.
You have a quarter of your army in the slann/engine combo. So you need to keep them alive and fighting. You're going to have to get your army to an objective and then turtle up. A smart player is going to pick off your astrolith and then engine as fast as possible, skinks are great for blocking this, and chameleons should be good to pick off war machines though.
Solid list, but I don’t think it will win a tournament.

The Salamander is a required for the Thunderquake starhost.

The thunderquake needs
1 engine or trog.
2 of stegadon or bastil
1 of kroxigor or salamander/razordons+handler

The thunderquake lets all the units in it regenerate 1 wound at the start of the turn, or D3 if withing 10'' of a slan.
The engine ofcouse gets much better with a slan near by, and the trog doesn't seem very good.

Than the slan's constellation has 1 that gives +1 to hit and I will try to turn it to that asap.
The slan's command ability gives re-roll saves vs shooting.
The thunderhost gives re-roll saves in combat.
Than the slan can cast shield on himself or the engine to help keep it alive, the cast is boosted by the banner. boosting the arcane bolt range is also need.

Hopefully I can stick the slan and Banner in terrain and turtle around that.
So to sum up, we have
Slann, boosting healing, re-rolls armour, potentially +1 to hit and further magic shenanigans.
Engine, boosted by slan, +1 dice and re-roll armour vs shooting. He will heal 1+D3 within 10'' of the slann, potentially D3 more if it's in dire straits.
2 bastil, re-rolling saves, Re-roll failed hit from banner, wound from formation. Potentially +1 to hit from slan.
Salamander, needed for formation but can help with stuff close by.

I ammended the list slightly, now going for:



Engine of the Gods (240)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)

5x 10 x Skinks Bolt Spitter & Star Bucklers

3 x Skink Handlers

1 x Salamanders

5 x Chameleon Skinks

Bastiladon

Bastiladon

Thunderquake Starhost

Total: 2000/2000

This gives 50 skinks for board controll and controll deployement, 5 chameleons for cheecky business.
using the skink and if needed salamander I can see where my opponent deploys and counter with my main threat.
Also going second first turn is not that bad as than you can't get double tabbed in turn 2!

The list has pretty good chaff I think in the skinks, can bubble wrap well if needed.
Chameons to get cannon crew etc，objective grab and so on. Main power ofcourse is the 2 bastill who will re-roll to hit and wound (potentially +1 to hit) They should also have great staying power with re-roll on the saves and the healing. Key will be to keep the slann and the engine alive, banner to a lesser extend but I'll trust my deployement/re-roll to keep them save.

I'm okay with not winning, just want to do well/not get rolled!

 

[Crowsfoot]

The Salamander is a required for the Thunderquake starhost.

The thunderquake needs
1 engine or trog.
2 of stegadon or bastil
1 of kroxigor or salamander/razordons+handler

The thunderquake lets all the units in it regenerate 1 wound at the start of the turn, or D3 if withing 10'' of a slan.
The engine ofcouse gets much better with a slan near by, and the trog doesn't seem very good.

Than the slan's constellation has 1 that gives +1 to hit and I will try to turn it to that asap.
The slan's command ability gives re-roll saves vs shooting.
The thunderhost gives re-roll saves in combat.
Than the slan can cast shield on himself or the engine to help keep it alive, the cast is boosted by the banner. boosting the arcane bolt range is also need.

Hopefully I can stick the slan and Banner in terrain and turtle around that.
So to sum up, we have
Slann, boosting healing, re-rolls armour, potentially +1 to hit and further magic shenanigans.
Engine, boosted by slan, +1 dice and re-roll armour vs shooting. He will heal 1+D3 within 10'' of the slann, potentially D3 more if it's in dire straits.
2 bastil, re-rolling saves, Re-roll failed hit from banner, wound from formation. Potentially +1 to hit from slan.
Salamander, needed for formation but can help with stuff close by.

I ammended the list slightly, now going for:



Engine of the Gods (240)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)

5x 10 x Skinks Bolt Spitter & Star Bucklers

3 x Skink Handlers

1 x Salamanders

5 x Chameleon Skinks

Bastiladon

Bastiladon

Thunderquake Starhost

Total: 2000/2000

This gives 50 skinks for board controll and controll deployement, 5 chameleons for cheecky business.
using the skink and if needed salamander I can see where my opponent deploys and counter with my main threat.
Also going second first turn is not that bad as than you can't get double tabbed in turn 2!

The list has pretty good chaff I think in the skinks, can bubble wrap well if needed.
Chameons to get cannon crew etc，objective grab and so on. Main power ofcourse is the 2 bastill who will re-roll to hit and wound (potentially +1 to hit) They should also have great staying power with re-roll on the saves and the healing. Key will be to keep the slann and the engine alive, banner to a lesser extend but I'll trust my deployement/re-roll to keep them save.

I'm okay with not winning, just want to do well/not get rolled!

I know that's why I suggested trying to add another, I still think the Slann is not worth the points but the second list I like, very curious to see how the army performs, will you keep us informed please?

 

[Fruzzle]

I know that's why I suggested trying to add another, I still think the Slann is not worth the points but the second list I like, very curious to see how the army performs, will you keep us informed please?

Yeah me to! I certainly keep you posted, my tournament is in May but I might get some practise games in in the next couple of week。

 

[Bowser]

Right, oops! Forgot about the minimum requirement there. If you do get some practice in try with slann, if it isn't playing hiw you want it to, try dropping the slann, take 2 more salamanders, a skink chief as general and add 10 skinks.

 

[Fruzzle]

Had my first game with the army this weekend! It works as intended.
I played against an Ork army (sorry don't have all the AoS names down yet) with
General on big baddy (maw crusha? I could do mortal impact hits on a 4+)
2 main units of infantry with 2 wounds each
2 units of boar riders (5 wounds, wosa!)
1 unit of heavy infantry (3 wounds, crazy damage)
2 heroes holding up two bones handing out extra attacks or +1 to hit, hard to keep track of all the buffs.
1 sorcerer hero.

We played the comet mission.

He was advancing up the field whilst holding back his general, I had spread out with main baddies in the middle. I could only shoot his basic guys the first turn and did a bit of damage, turn 2 the comet landed, his in the middle and mine on my left. He charged a bunch and moved up his general but because of my positioning he couldn't stick it in combat (Massive base).

I frogged up and severely overestimated his threat to my centre and underestimated his threat to my left (with the comet). I unloaded on the general with basti and engine (D6 mortal wounds) and brought him down to single digits, I also dropped my ninja skinks close to his comet and tried to snipe the wizard but no luck. I should have moved my lines more to my comet but I was still expecting a main charge on my center line and I didn't think his infantry could get to my comet that fast (spoiler: they did) I did charge with basti. and Engine (my other basti was tying up his boar riders).

On his turn 3 he got to my objective blowing off the skinks and used his general to kill my Ninja skinks and I killed his general and plowed his center line. Turn 4 I tried to clear my objective but no luck. Turn 5 his army was effectively gone but I could not score enough points to catch up.

Lesson learned:

I had way to many skinks survive, screen for units I didn't have to screen for and didn't screen the objective as much as was needed, serious strategic mistakes.

In order to win with this army you must make full use of the expensive monsters; not just shooting but get in CQC as well. I charged early enough but should have been more aggressive turn 2 (But than, I had to clear his general first because it could oneshot my engine).

The good:

Bastiladon, I screened for them but really didn't have to, stupid mistake and I needed those skinks on near the objective. They did a marvellous job tough, 1 tied up 6 of the 5 wound boar riders, the other almost won the game but couldn't quiet clear the objective.

The engine: results: first turn: Summoning! even with the slann couldn't prevent it, 2x 1d6 mortal wounds, 2x the mortal wounds AOE. Besides the first turn it was great, definantly worth the points

Slann: Great casting, didn't need his re-roll vs shooting against this army but flying skinks let me pull of some tricks.

The Banner: So many re-rolls! helped with long range Magic Missiles as well and improved casting, no complaints. Well, 1, by turn 3 you want to move up but also want the buff... have to not be greedy and move more freely. I should have also deployed him more offensively/forward. Just don't play badly/greedily and he works I think.

Salamander: Just 1 but he did work, went down to 1 wound twice but re-roll saves in combat + regenerate wounds really payed of. Forgot the after shooting wounds one time, little annoying to remember. but with so many ''other'' threats I think he'll be secret all star many times.

Mediocre

Skinks... I think mostly my mistake but even with either re-roll all hits or re-roll 1's to hit they didn't really do much. I think I tried to preserve them too much and should have been screened more aggressively, mostly my own mistakes.

Skink Handlers: you have to take them but meh.

Ninja Skinks: Well, I was a bit unlucky, maybe I should have held off one more turn with them and not go for gold. but if they succeeded ... rolls were a little poor.. can't complain much, should have played better

And can't complain about the list, should have played better really sums it up so far. I had great fun tough!

Final Thought:

Turn order, I always let him go first when I could, except for turn 5. (I could choose 1st and 2nd turn, 3 and 4 was him)
I did that because if het got double turn he could kill skinks and than charge his boss into my backline before I could react, I think it was the right call.

 

[Seraphage]

Had my first game with the army this weekend! It works as intended.
I played against an Ork army (sorry don't have all the AoS names down yet) with
General on big baddy (maw crusha? I could do mortal impact hits on a 4+)
2 main units of infantry with 2 wounds each
2 units of boar riders (5 wounds, wosa!)
1 unit of heavy infantry (3 wounds, crazy damage)
2 heroes holding up two bones handing out extra attacks or +1 to hit, hard to keep track of all the buffs.
1 sorcerer hero.

We played the comet mission.

He was advancing up the field whilst holding back his general, I had spread out with main baddies in the middle. I could only shoot his basic guys the first turn and did a bit of damage, turn 2 the comet landed, his in the middle and mine on my left. He charged a bunch and moved up his general but because of my positioning he couldn't stick it in combat (Massive base).

I frogged up and severely overestimated his threat to my centre and underestimated his threat to my left (with the comet). I unloaded on the general with basti and engine (D6 mortal wounds) and brought him down to single digits, I also dropped my ninja skinks close to his comet and tried to snipe the wizard but no luck. I should have moved my lines more to my comet but I was still expecting a main charge on my center line and I didn't think his infantry could get to my comet that fast (spoiler: they did) I did charge with basti. and Engine (my other basti was tying up his boar riders).

On his turn 3 he got to my objective blowing off the skinks and used his general to kill my Ninja skinks and I killed his general and plowed his center line. Turn 4 I tried to clear my objective but no luck. Turn 5 his army was effectively gone but I could not score enough points to catch up.

Lesson learned:

I had way to many skinks survive, screen for units I didn't have to screen for and didn't screen the objective as much as was needed, serious strategic mistakes.

In order to win with this army you must make full use of the expensive monsters; not just shooting but get in CQC as well. I charged early enough but should have been more aggressive turn 2 (But than, I had to clear his general first because it could oneshot my engine).

The good:

Bastiladon, I screened for them but really didn't have to, stupid mistake and I needed those skinks on near the objective. They did a marvellous job tough, 1 tied up 6 of the 5 wound boar riders, the other almost won the game but couldn't quiet clear the objective.

The engine: results: first turn: Summoning! even with the slann couldn't prevent it, 2x 1d6 mortal wounds, 2x the mortal wounds AOE. Besides the first turn it was great, definantly worth the points

Slann: Great casting, didn't need his re-roll vs shooting against this army but flying skinks let me pull of some tricks.

The Banner: So many re-rolls! helped with long range Magic Missiles as well and improved casting, no complaints. Well, 1, by turn 3 you want to move up but also want the buff... have to not be greedy and move more freely. I should have also deployed him more offensively/forward. Just don't play badly/greedily and he works I think.

Salamander: Just 1 but he did work, went down to 1 wound twice but re-roll saves in combat + regenerate wounds really payed of. Forgot the after shooting wounds one time, little annoying to remember. but with so many ''other'' threats I think he'll be secret all star many times.

Mediocre

Skinks... I think mostly my mistake but even with either re-roll all hits or re-roll 1's to hit they didn't really do much. I think I tried to preserve them too much and should have been screened more aggressively, mostly my own mistakes.

Skink Handlers: you have to take them but meh.

Ninja Skinks: Well, I was a bit unlucky, maybe I should have held off one more turn with them and not go for gold. but if they succeeded ... rolls were a little poor.. can't complain much, should have played better

And can't complain about the list, should have played better really sums it up so far. I had great fun tough!

Final Thought:

Turn order, I always let him go first when I could, except for turn 5. (I could choose 1st and 2nd turn, 3 and 4 was him)
I did that because if het got double turn he could kill skinks and than charge his boss into my backline before I could react, I think it was the right call.

Sounds like a fun battle ! Since you learned so many things from it, the result doesnt matter. Well done, looking forward to your next !

 

[Aginor]

Ok, I needed a bit of time to translate this.

Sounds like you faced an army of Ironjawz Orruks.

General on big baddy (maw crusha? I could do mortal impact hits on a 4+) --> Megaboss on Maw-Krusha
2 main units of infantry with 2 wounds each --> Ardboyz I guess
2 units of boar riders (5 wounds, wosa!) --> Gore-Gruntas
1 unit of heavy infantry (3 wounds, crazy damage) --> Brutes
2 heroes holding up two bones handing out extra attacks or +1 to hit, hard to keep track of all the buffs. --> Warchanters
1 sorcerer hero. --> a Weirdknob Shaman I guess?

That's a pretty good army your opponent had there, I face Ironjawz regularly (my friend plays mixed Destruction, but Ironjawz-heavy) and they are a tough bunch.
Everyone has a 4+ save and many of them have a lot of wounds, too. Their main weakness is shooting (from the top of my head they have exactly one unit - the Maw-Krusha - that can shoot at all), but they are good in melee.
Their other downsides are low movement (can be mitigated by an allegiance ability of the Destruction Grand Alliance though) and the unfortunate fact that they are a melee horde army, but all models have big (32mm or bigger) bases, which forces the Ironjawz player to move smartly or half of his boyz can't attack since they are blocking each other.

They only have one wizard, but that one (the Weirdknob Shaman) is an annoying guy with two very powerful spells.

The Maw-Krusha actually isn't as dangerous as it looks like, it is huge so you can often deny it the terrain to stand on. And then shoot it of course.

Gore-Gruntas are pretty good for their 180 points. Many wounds and a good save, combined with their speed make them excellent to lead the charge, thus protecting the infantry getting shot at.

Ironjawz pretty much have one tactic: Attack!! They have to move towards you and hit you. They are rather good at defending objectives as well. So at least you know what is coming.

As for your army: In that case the 5x 10x Skinks weren't as good as expected I fear. Probably 2x 10 Skinks and 1x 30 Skinks would have been better so they actually do some damage when shooting.

But it sounds like you had fun and actually got pretty close to winning (with a bit more luck you probably would have), so good job!

 

[Fruzzle]

Sounds like a fun battle ! Since you learned so many things from it, the result doesnt matter. Well done, looking forward to your next !

Ok, I needed a bit of time to translate this.

Sounds like you faced an army of Ironjawz Orruks.

General on big baddy (maw crusha? I could do mortal impact hits on a 4+) --> Megaboss on Maw-Krusha
2 main units of infantry with 2 wounds each --> Ardboyz I guess
2 units of boar riders (5 wounds, wosa!) --> Gore-Gruntas
1 unit of heavy infantry (3 wounds, crazy damage) --> Brutes
2 heroes holding up two bones handing out extra attacks or +1 to hit, hard to keep track of all the buffs. --> Warchanters
1 sorcerer hero. --> a Weirdknob Shaman I guess?

That's a pretty good army your opponent had there, I face Ironjawz regularly (my friend plays mixed Destruction, but Ironjawz-heavy) and they are a tough bunch.
Everyone has a 4+ save and many of them have a lot of wounds, too. Their main weakness is shooting (from the top of my head they have exactly one unit - the Maw-Krusha - that can shoot at all), but they are good in melee.
Their other downsides are low movement (can be mitigated by an allegiance ability of the Destruction Grand Alliance though) and the unfortunate fact that they are a melee horde army, but all models have big (32mm or bigger) bases, which forces the Ironjawz player to move smartly or half of his boyz can't attack since they are blocking each other.

They only have one wizard, but that one (the Weirdknob Shaman) is an annoying guy with two very powerful spells.

The Maw-Krusha actually isn't as dangerous as it looks like, it is huge so you can often deny it the terrain to stand on. And then shoot it of course.

Gore-Gruntas are pretty good for their 180 points. Many wounds and a good save, combined with their speed make them excellent to lead the charge, thus protecting the infantry getting shot at.

Ironjawz pretty much have one tactic: Attack!! They have to move towards you and hit you. They are rather good at defending objectives as well. So at least you know what is coming.

As for your army: In that case the 5x 10x Skinks weren't as good as expected I fear. Probably 2x 10 Skinks and 1x 30 Skinks would have been better so they actually do some damage when shooting.

But it sounds like you had fun and actually got pretty close to winning (with a bit more luck you probably would have), so good job!

Your both right the game was a lot of fun, really enjoying age of sigmar so far (And I'm a staunch fantasy player, also play 9th, played since 6th) so that's very good for me! I love the combat activation system. The only thing I noticed is, because it's so interactive, its hard to look up rules as the other player is doing stuff or take pictures for battle reports...

Your translations are bang on, I was really scared of the wizards power (Like a lot of mortal wounds potentially) but he didn't roll high enough when in Range, mostly used it to cast mystic shields(on the boss). My opponent knows the game much better than me and was showing me how it all works.

He used the destruction power of move an extra D6 every turn, it really added up and I couldn't shift his Brutes in the end. Can't believe Gore Grunters are THAT cheap, they seemed really amazing on table (Comparing to Saurus cav makes me cry).

I was a bit too scared of the boss, I managed to use skinks and combat to not give him a place to go with his massive base but paranoid as Frog that he'd combo out a couple of units and get my Steg or stack a bunch of wounds on a bastil. In hindsight, and using math I realize it wouldn't be that bad but at the time.... yeah I was terrified.(Actually he'd do 2 mortal wounds on the charge on average against bastil... not sure why scared.) Is there any unit that might get a bastil in one go? considering re-roll saves from the formation?

On the Skinks, I am considering switching it around a bit, I think 1x 30 might be a bit unwieldy and really open me up for taking heavy casualties.
I'm considering 1x 20 3x 10 but what's really on my mind is...

Dropping one unit of skinks, going 1x20 2x10 and saving the points for summoning. It will
-stop my deployment clutter (really a mess with 5x10 skinks, ended looking like blades of a fan to stay in buff range whilst having zone control.)
-Give me less drops so more control over first turn (but less over deployment
-the ability to respawn a screening unit where I need it (especially useful if there just isn't the space to set up 2 units and have one withdraw over it.
-Choice of summoning Skink chief (VERY useful in the mission where only characters can claim objectives as I'm light on them now.
-Make useless engine roles less painful.

I have engine and Slann to Summon. The whole game I never found the +1 dice for battleshock useful and I think my army can't really take advantage of it.

Writing this I'd almost drop to 3x10 skinks giving me 160 point toolbox. What do you all think?

P.S. I will definitely write up a report for my tournament for you!

EDIT: Regarding opponent army strength, I didn't want him to play a ''weak'' list as I wanted to see how mine held up and I don't think mine is particularly friendly either. And he said the EXACT same thing: One trick pony, but great pony

 

[Bowser]

Awesome write up here! Inwoukd go 3x10 for the skinks. Pay the tax, but use them well. 160 points you could take a starseer and have a bit of fun. Or as you said, leave it for summoning.

 

[Seraphage]

Was thinking.. since BSB placement is a thing, how about you summon him in turn 2 further ahead ? Since turn 1 is usually not the most constructive one due to distances and all ? ( I m thinking that myself for when I ll play a Slann list )

 

[Bowser]

Was thinking.. since BSB placement is a thing, how about you summon him in turn 2 further ahead ? Since turn 1 is usually not the most constructive one due to distances and all ? ( I m thinking that myself for when I ll play a Slann list )

That's brilliant.

 

[Fruzzle]

Was thinking.. since BSB placement is a thing, how about you summon him in turn 2 further ahead ? Since turn 1 is usually not the most constructive one due to distances and all ? ( I m thinking that myself for when I ll play a Slann list )

I definantly think you're on to something there Seraphage, I agree with Bowsers first reaction; That's Brilliant!

Giving it a bit more thought, there are some cons but I think the benefits outweigh them;

+++ Can't be alpha struck off the table this way
+ Also allows for other summoning options (but I'd have to seriously constrain myself to not try to summon Old Blood on Carnosaur)
+ 1 less drop giving you increased odds of first turn choice.

- If I fail the summon it's a big poblem. I looked it up and summoned on a 5, odds must be very low on failing the summon even before factoring it the potential +1 to cast constellation （double 1, double 2, 1 and 2, and 3 and 1 are the only combinations that fail, so 6 possible bad result combinations.)
- Less likely to try and change the constellation before summoning him because risking the roll of a 1 is pretty bad.

My army does take full advantage of the banner with the 2 bastil and 30 skinks so risking the failed summon is big.
Considering I'll always cast missile and shield anyway, I only have 1 spell left to summon, if the Slann dies I'm frogged because I can't summon my missing points (barring engine rolls which now can't be manipulated)．　The Slann would effectively almost be worth 600 points, which... is a bit scary to think of it that way.

I love love love the Starseer and think he's easily in our top 3 units but... I don't have the model and think it's a bit crazily prized (30 pounds!? come on). Finally, it's direct only which is a bit annoying here. Even tough I love the model I'd rather buy a steg and make it an Ancient/Bow steg, using the Skink Priest from it with the engine parts on a spare slann palanquin (I have Kroak and normal Slann, so generally one empty for battle!) and..... I think I'm on to something here! I'd get a new steg for a fiver!

That's enough for now, don't want to write an Essay but your certainly gave me something to think about! Thanks!