8th Ed. 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times list

[Scalenex]

Just finished a vanilla tournament. I asked if anyone wanted to give End Times rules a spin, and a guy wants to test out a list for a future (distant) End Times Tournament. This guys usually beats me, and he is testing out a tournament list. Therefore. Nothing I can do is too cheesy, so I'm open to any empowering suggestions. However, I want at least two levels of the Lore of Undeath. that's nonnegotiable. Without trying out that lore, I see little reason for me to try End Times rules (until they give us new LM characters)

I just barely am going over 25% in Lords. I feel so naughty!

Slann Mage Priest, BSB, Standard of Discipline, Channeling Staff, Tormentor Sword, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone.
Saurus Old Blood, Shield, Armor of Destiny, Sword of Antiheroes, Firebane Gem

Saurus Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Potion of Foolhardiness, Fencer's Blades, Luckstone, Potion of Foolhardiness
Skink Priest, Level 1 of Lore TBA, Relic Sword, Dispel Scroll
Skink Chief, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Egg of Quango, Warrior Bane

31 Saurus Warriors with FC
21 Skink Skirmishers with Patrol Leader

31 Temple Guard, Standard Bearer with Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, Champion with Sword of Striking

So that's it, I opted for a few big units because I figured I could summon chaff. I gave EVERY character a magic weapon because I fear ethereals.

I am open to feedback on my controversial plan of running a mobile Skirmisher faux Death Star (Star Destroyer?). If figure with a Skink Chief leader and 23 bodies that it will be fairly hard to panic with screams, magic missiles or gasp TK artillery!. Hopefully it can get where I need to arcane vassaling Undeath’s magic missile or casting buffs or summons of his own. I am hoping two magic weapons and the Egg will let my Skinks actually win a close combat if they fight something ethereal (once anyway).

Two Saurus infantry blocks. Two Saurus characters. I don’t care which goes in which, that depends more on where my enemy’s (presumed) character wall shows up, that one gets the Sword of Anti-Heroes.

I am sweating two minor details. First, I don’t know if it would be better if my Skink Priest took Undeath, Heavens, or Beasts. Iceshard Blizzard is versatile and if I roll one of the three direct damages I can cover a magical hole the Slann is lacking. Beasts can buff my many characters or Wyssans a Saurus block to become mighty (or a undead roadblock extra thick). If I take Undeath, I have a very good chance of picking Kandorak or Akar’aran which can let me six dice the sucker without risking my Slann’s health on a miscast.

Second I’m not sure whether the Saurus Warriors would be better off with spears or hand weapons.

I toyed with the idea of Kroxigor, but they'd be too easy to kill with ethereals. I toyed with the idea of a Solardon to fill my missing ranged magic niche, but think it's liability with it's poor Ld and I is too much of a liability. I don't think Sallies, Razordons, flyers, or Steggies bring much to the table because of their lack of magic, high cost, and low Ld scores.

I'm open to any tweaks to the list. Like I said, anything goes as long as I have the Lore of Undeath.

Note: Said opponent is not planning to use any End Times characters. Though Morghasts are possible and Lore of Undeath is virtually assured.

 

[Madrck]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

I would build the OB Piranha blade, shield, ToP, speed pot and the scarvet GW AoD. I'd make the skink heavens as it has a much better chance at a MM as well as comet. If you know he's bringing UD magic you can really control where he can summon units if you roll comet. Can UD magic make a black coach on the first turn? because I'd so want to do that. I'd give the chief sword of striking, hitting on 2's wounding on 4's vs etherals is pretty boss. I think a basti would do alot of work, but you'd have to atleast drop the priest and I'm really not sure which does more work. you don't get an benefit from arcane vassal with UD do you?
Don't forget the battle report so we know what summoning all kinds of scary stuff is like.

P.s. Can you summon a casket? really need to get a copy of the rules

 

[Scalenex]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

I would build the OB Piranha blade, shield, ToP, speed pot and the scarvet GW AoD.

I'll consider the Piranha Blade, but shield and Talisman of Protection is actually more expensive than Armor of Destiny which does the exact same thing without taking up two hands. I suppose if I took Armor of Destiny and the shield I could have a 1+ armor save on foot rather than a 2+ which is pretty nice. Sadly that rules out a potion, but even with +3 Initiative a Vampire Lord is still faster.

I'd make the skink heavens as it has a much better chance at a MM as well as comet. If you know he's bringing UD magic you can really control where he can summon units if you roll comet.

I think you sold me on Heavens. Assuming I don't go Bastiladon.

Can UD magic make a black coach on the first turn?[ because I'd so want to do that.

It is possible. It's 24 cast, but it takes no tokens, so one could that on Turn One.

I'd give the chief sword of striking, hitting on 2's wounding on 4's vs etherals is pretty boss

Now that you mention it, it makes a lot more sense to give that to the Skink Chief than the Revered Guardian.

I think a basti would do alot of work, but you'd have to atleast drop the priest and I'm really not sure which does more work. you don't get an benefit from arcane vassal with UD do you?

There is one UD spell that a Skink Priest can channel. 12 inch range striking units with wounds based on an Ld trait and rewarding bonus tokens if at least one wound is unsaved. Sure it's only one spell out of seven, but I figured I'd want more than four spells.

Don't forget the battle report so we know what summoning all kinds of scary stuff is like.

Of course.

P.s. Can you summon a casket? really need to get a copy of the rules

Yes, you can. Assuming I casted augmented Kandorak on turn one, I would be torn whether to take that or the Black Coach.

If you want see what you can and can't do, check out this Tactica. The hard part is not what you can do but what you should do.

 

[Scalenex]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

Revised List is as follows.

Slann Mage Priest, BSB, Channeling Staff, Tormentor Sword, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone.
Saurus Old Blood, Shield, Armor of Destiny, Piranha Blade

Saurus Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Sword of Anti-heroes, Opal Amulet
Skink Chief, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Egg of Quango, Sword of Striking

29 Saurus Warriors with FC
21 Skink Skirmishers with Patrol Leader

29 Temple Guard, Standard Bearer with Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, Champion with Warrior Bane
Bastiladon with Solar Engine


Basically dropped Standard of Discipline, the Skink Priest, and two from each Saurus block to add the Bastiladon plus played musical chairs with the magic items.

 

[Madrck]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

I think the black coach is just cute, not the best choice. Sure it can turn into a monster, but the VC lords will have magic weapons so even if you do go etheral they will still be able to kill you. Does KB kill the lords? because then maybe it would be worth it as KB on impact hits would get it done.
Casket is based on LD, pretty sure UD are very low in that area and you would get to summon the casket and then shoot with it straight away.
Guess the winds also have to be in your favour a little to both summon and use the bound spell.

 

[Gringold]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

If "Nothing [you] can do is too cheesy", I think you are seriously missing out by not squeezing in two single units of Salamanders.

With End Times, I'm guessing that your opponent wants to try out Lore of Undeath (like you) and/or > 25% Lords & Heroes. With that in mind, I would try to squeeze as much anti-chaff and anti-hero units as possible in, otherwise I'd fear that you will both end up summoning chaff and then SLOWLY killing each other's chaff for the entire game. The Solardon looks nice, but I feel like I would want more.

As for where to find the points, you don't have many options. Trim down the TG block or cut the Scar-vet. While I love the Scar-vet and think he has one of the best values in the book, your particular Scar-vet cowboy seems out of place. I figure the Old Blood goes with the Saurus block, the Egg Chief goes with the Skirmishers, and the Slann goes with Temple Guard. I'm not really sure what this lizard on a Cold One is going to accomplish out on his own with that overpriced magic sword. And if he isn't out on his own, then it seems like a waste to give him a Cold One mount.

 

[Scalenex]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

If "Nothing [you] can do is too cheesy", I think you are seriously missing out by not squeezing in two single units of Salamanders.

With End Times, I'm guessing that your opponent wants to try out Lore of Undeath (like you) and/or > 25% Lords & Heroes. With that in mind, I would try to squeeze as much anti-chaff and anti-hero units as possible in, otherwise I'd fear that you will both end up summoning chaff and then SLOWLY killing each other's chaff for the entire game. The Solardon looks nice, but I feel like I would want more.

As for where to find the points, you don't have many options. Trim down the TG block or cut the Scar-vet. While I love the Scar-vet and think he has one of the best values in the book, your particular Scar-vet cowboy seems out of place. I figure the Old Blood goes with the Saurus block, the Egg Chief goes with the Skirmishers, and the Slann goes with Temple Guard. I'm not really sure what this lizard on a Cold One is going to accomplish out on his own with that overpriced magic sword. And if he isn't out on his own, then it seems like a waste to give him a Cold One mount.

Your points are valid, but I do not think Salamanders will contribute a lot. They have historically performed poorly for me against Vampire Counts. Undead do not panic and a single L1 Necromancer with Invocation of Nehek can heal most if not all of the damage inflicted.

I have the Scar Vet a Cold One for the armor save. Without template shooting, the lack of a look out sir is not an issue. Okay I guess a Skull Catapult is a possibility but it's not likely. Each infantry unit is intended to have magic attacks.

Though I am moderately tempted to try Sallies anyway for target saturation. I fear my Bastiladon will be somewhat exposed and vulnerable.

I have an alternate list with a backup caster in lieu of the Bastiladon

Slann Mage Priest, BSB, Channeling Staff, Relic Blade, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone.
Saurus Old Blood, Shield, Armor of Destiny, Piranha Blade

Saurus Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Opal Amulet
Skink Chief, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Egg of Quango, Sword of Striking
Skink Priest, L2 Heavens, Dispel Scroll, Tormentor Sword

31 Saurus Warriors with FC
20 Skink Skirmishers with Patrol Leader

29 Temple Guard, Standard Bearer with Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, Champion with Warrior Bane

 

[Gringold]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

Your points are valid, but I do not think Salamanders will contribute a lot. They have historically performed poorly for me against Vampire Counts. Undead do not panic and a single L1 Necromancer with Invocation of Nehek can heal most if not all of the damage inflicted.

I have the Scar Vet a Cold One for the armor save. Without template shooting, the lack of a look out sir is not an issue. Okay I guess a Skull Catapult is a possibility but it's not likely. Each infantry unit is intended to have magic attacks.

Fair enough.

If that's the case, I'd be more inclined to remove the single Solardon and add a second Scar-vet Cowboy for some anti-hero redundancy, or remove the single Scar-vet Cowboy and add a second Solardon for some anti-chaff redundancy (instead of adding a Priest). Either option seems better than the 1 & 1 that currently exists, or the Priest alternative.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, though, as I am very inexperienced!

 

[Scalenex]

Re: 2000 points, LM versus Undead Legions,first End Times li

Don't forget the battle report so we know what summoning all kinds of scary stuff is like.

battle report is up!

Summoning undead troops is a lot of fun!