TOW 2000 double carnosaur no wizards

[Kalisto]

Well...I am consider to join a tournament (no renegade unfortunately) with skull of thrones limits (0-3 500 max character, max 1 level 4, max 2 level 3)

Usually I played sarvet on the second carnosaur and an oldblood on cold one, but I consider the double oldblood option to have both "big" weapons, tzunki is especially good against Bretonnia. The other things are more or less obligated. chameleon are not good but I don't know really how to change them (maybe ripperdactyls instead of terradons or more skinks but 12 are enough big units)

Suggestions? Considerations?


===
Lizardmen [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [917 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Blade of Revered Tzunki

Saurus Oldblood [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Charmed Shield

Skink Chief [110 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Terradon
- Charmed Shield
- Ruby Ring of Ruin

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warriors [302 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard
- Patrol Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [326 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

5 Chameleon Skinks [55 pts]
- Blowpipes
- Hand weapons
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [255 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Engine of the Gods

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[VonAlex]

Hi Kalisto, reduce the offensive part of the carnosaur a lil and gave more protection?

Saurus Oldblood [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Charmed Shield

Maybe Giant Blade + Glyph Necklace + 2 potion of speed?
I thought of this combination because you already have a "character hunter" OldBlood

I didn't get along very well with the chameleon skinks, and even the terradons to tell the truth...could it be an idea to add another bastiladon with a solar machine and put the Skink Chief on foot? The RRR have a good range...

 

[Kalisto]

Hi Kalisto, reduce the offensive part of the carnosaur a lil and gave more protection?

Saurus Oldblood [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Charmed Shield

Maybe Giant Blade + Glyph Necklace + 2 potion of speed?
I thought of this combination because you already have a "character hunter" OldBlood

I didn't get along very well with the chameleon skinks, and even the terradons to tell the truth...could it be an idea to add another bastiladon with a solar machine and put the Skink Chief on foot? The RRR have a good range...

Thank for the suggestions! Unfortunately got only 1 bastiladon (but 2 stegadons in case). Personally I don't like the Giant Blade a lot,isn't that bad but it gives no AP! I have also considered armour of destiny + venom fo firefly fog + great weapon. Still don+t know if remove ogre blade or tzunki. The latter is really good against Bretonnia for example, the only problem is that just strength 6. Ogre blade has 7.

About chameleons agree, but don+t know really what to play. Maybe just 10 more skinks... Terradons bomb are ok for kill light cavalry, usually they don+t reach war machines but enemies lost a round of fire on them trying to protecting them.

 

[VonAlex]

Giant Blade a lot,isn't that bad but it gives no AP!

well thats true....with armore bane 2 isnt the same thing to have for every single hit but the compromise holds (for me).
what about Headsman's Axe? i never tryed before

but 2 stegadons in case

the squad of ancient stegadon is very good almost with all type of enemy, i usually use it but they have to join the melee in the same time

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

Well...I am consider to join a tournament (no renegade unfortunately) with skull of thrones limits (0-3 500 max character, max 1 level 4, max 2 level 3)

Usually I played sarvet on the second carnosaur and an oldblood on cold one, but I consider the double oldblood option to have both "big" weapons, tzunki is especially good against Bretonnia. The other things are more or less obligated. chameleon are not good but I don't know really how to change them (maybe ripperdactyls instead of terradons or more skinks but 12 are enough big units)

Suggestions? Considerations?


===
Lizardmen [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [917 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Blade of Revered Tzunki

Saurus Oldblood [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Charmed Shield

Skink Chief [110 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Terradon
- Charmed Shield
- Ruby Ring of Ruin

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warriors [302 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard
- Patrol Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [326 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

5 Chameleon Skinks [55 pts]
- Blowpipes
- Hand weapons
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [255 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Engine of the Gods

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

I’m not a saurus big block fan. I think swarms perform the same blocking function, at a lower cost.
And with duble Carno i pref duble stegandon and not bastiladon.
But just my opinion.

===
Duble Truble [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [928 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Blade of Revered Tzunki

Saurus Oldblood [405 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Enchanted Shield

Skink Chief [116 pts]
- Cavalry spear
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Shield
- Terradon
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Charmed Shield

++ Core Units [530 pts] ++

12 Saurus Warriors [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Spawn Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

4 Jungle Swarms [160 pts]
- Hand weapons

++ Special Units [96 pts] ++

3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [445 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

Stegadon [215 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[discomute]

I’m not a saurus big block fan. I think swarms perform the same blocking function, at a lower cost.
And with duble Carno i pref duble stegandon and not bastiladon.
But just my opinion.

===
Duble Truble [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [928 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Blade of Revered Tzunki

Saurus Oldblood [405 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Armour of Meteoric Iron
- Enchanted Shield

Skink Chief [116 pts]
- Cavalry spear
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Shield
- Terradon
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Charmed Shield

++ Core Units [530 pts] ++

12 Saurus Warriors [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Spawn Leader (champion)

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

4 Jungle Swarms [160 pts]
- Hand weapons

++ Special Units [96 pts] ++

3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [445 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

Stegadon [215 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Yeah I was chatting to a competitive lizardmen guy on YT (who actually does tournaments) and he firmly believes doubling down and creating a block or Saurus is a mistake. Just pay the 10 Saurus tax and move on. Can't argue with it, even if I think it's a little lame from an aesthetic and lore perspective.

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

Yeah I was chatting to a competitive lizardmen guy on YT (who actually does tournaments) and he firmly believes doubling down and creating a block or Saurus is a mistake. Just pay the 10 Saurus tax and move on. Can't argue with it, even if I think it's a little lame from an aesthetic and lore perspective.

competitive and lizardmen in the same sentence sounds a bit dystopian, but I totally agree.

 

[Kalisto]

Yeah I was chatting to a competitive lizardmen guy on YT (who actually does tournaments) and he firmly believes doubling down and creating a block or Saurus is a mistake. Just pay the 10 Saurus tax and move on. Can't argue with it, even if I think it's a little lame from an aesthetic and lore perspective.

I agree...but 175 against 140 is not such difference. 10 + champions feels a bit too little. However I am going to play only renegade in the future so this is will not be a problem. Even some tournament have with some renegade rules now.

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

I agree...but 175 against 140 is not such difference. 10 + champions feels a bit too little. However I am going to play only renegade in the future so this is will not be a problem. Even some tournament have with some renegade rules now.

the renegade rules aren't bad

 

[Kalisto]

Avoid the Saurus tax in itself is great. To could play Slann Inside TG and with some bonus is great! Even to could play terradons without require a skink hero. I am considering now to play 2x3 ripperdactyls for example.

And break test with 3d6 are amazing! Even against Wailing dirge av Vampire Counts!

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

Avoid the Saurus tax in itself is great. To could play Slann Inside TG and with some bonus is great! Even to could play terradons without require a skink hero. I am considering now to play 2x3 ripperdactyls for example.

And break test with 3d6 are amazing! Even against Wailing dirge av Vampire Counts!

Now i w8 your renegade list

 

[Kalisto]

Now i w8 your renegade list

I have done some....The slann's list could be with 1 or 2 carnosaurs or 1 carnosaur plus 1 skinks priest and 1 saurus/skink on terradon.
Core are easy. 18 TG, 12x3 skinks and 10 blowpipes skinks are like 550 points. 1 ancient stegadon. This is more or less mandatory.

About a list without a slann I am still working on it, probably 2 carnosaurs or 1 oldblood on a big cold one unit with MR 2 and Chotecs banner. I don't know how to fill cores, maybe 4-5 swarms. They feels much better of saurus. An ancient stegadon still seems mandatory here too. =)

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

I have done some....The slann's list could be with 1 or 2 carnosaurs or 1 carnosaur plus 1 skinks priest and 1 saurus/skink on terradon.
Core are easy. 18 TG, 12x3 skinks and 10 blowpipes skinks are like 550 points. 1 ancient stegadon. This is more or less mandatory.

About a list without a slann I am still working on it, probably 2 carnosaurs or 1 oldblood on a big cold one unit with MR 2 and Chotecs banner. I don't know how to fill cores, maybe 4-5 swarms. They feels much better of saurus. An ancient stegadon still seems mandatory here too. =)

What do you think about big cavallery? Stupidity with 3 dices seems not too bad

 

[Kalisto]

What do you think about big cavallery? Stupidity with 3 dices seems not too bad

No isn't bad....but here is a list why they are BAD considered as they were before:
- only -1 AP and only in charge. You had -2 AP before and -1AP always...ok armour save are lower now but still worse than all other cavalry with a lance.
- Iniative 2+3 = 5 ..usually you don't attack first.
- No Counter charge, if enemy have counter charge they start before you and kill you with their lances.
- No First Charge. Seriously lot of cavalry has it at least..we got nothing.
- Movement 7, is still one of the lowest movement for cavalry.

38 points, compared to ripperdactyl that cost 40...I don't say that ripper are better but they have higher mobility and 3-4 attacks each with cleaving blow isn't that bad.
A 5 unit with drilled, spears, champion and banner cost 199 points. If you have an hero inside 150 more points. I am not sure it's worth it. Check other cavalry in games and their points cost. Everyone else have special abilities, better WS, better Iniative some for of regeneration and ward save..we got cold blooded and stupidity, that's it.

 

[Kalisto]

To be playable in oldworld the should need Toughness 5. As dark elves that got toughness 4 AND first charge (and they could also have full plate armour!!)

 

[discomute]

What do you think about big cavallery? Stupidity with 3 dices seems not too bad

I thought so too but so far disappointing. I think they are still decent but not A-tier which I was expecting

 

[Kalisto]

I thought so too but so far disappointing. I think they are still decent but not A-tier which I was expecting

A-tier? I guess they are C-tier in the best of cases, if not D. Cost too much, no much AP and miss a lot of rules.
Ripperdactyl are maybe B-C in comparison

 

[discomute]

A-tier? I guess they are C-tier in the best of cases, if not D. Cost too much, no much AP and miss a lot of rules.
Ripperdactyl are maybe B-C in comparison

Ripperducks punch through infantry reasonably well but infantry isn't good. Cold one riders can take down things a bit tougher. Cold blooded stupid is a lot better than impetuous. So... I think they are both C tier.

 

[Kalisto]

Ripperducks punch through infantry reasonably well but infantry isn't good. Cold one riders can take down things a bit tougher. Cold blooded stupid is a lot better than impetuous. So... I think they are both C tier.

I probably agree...but we don+t have a lot of heavy hitting units. Ripper are good for cleavingblow. Fly is usually better because you can avoi a counter charge.
But as you say i wouldnt charge dragonogres or a big block infantery with rippers, maybe i would do with cold ones....

 

[thelastsatyr]

I probably agree...but we don+t have a lot of heavy hitting units. Ripper are good for cleavingblow. Fly is usually better because you can avoi a counter charge.
But as you say i wouldnt charge dragonogres or a big block infantery with rippers, maybe i would do with cold ones....

What do you think is the best target for ripperdactyls? I'm new to lm, kind of struggling to find the "best" targets for each lizardmen unit and ripper are a prime example.