8th Ed. 2,4k ETC Lizardmen list Draft #2

[Agrem]

Hello everyone!

Would like to hear some feedback for my updated lizardmen list for ETC Draft #2. I'm planning on attending a tournament at the end of the month where my original plan is to take my dark elves (Boo hisss!). I'm afraid that I don't get enough practice games before the tournament in order to play with them at even close to some competitive level as I haven't really touched the models after the release of the latest book (also I got some painting to do but as being a bit busy with work and stuff not sure I can manage to get everything done).

Therefore my plan B is to take my trusty lizardmen to the ball. Here's what my current edition list looks like:

Slann Mage-Priest: General, Battle Standard Bearer, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Channeling Staff, Jaguar Standard = 455
Saurus Oldblood: Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Piranha Blade, Potion of Strength = 249
Saurus Scar-Veteran: Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Destiny = 154
Saurus Scar-Veteran: Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Fortune, Dragonbane Gem = 144
Skink Priest: Heavens Magic, Dispel Scroll = 90
3 x 20 Skink Cohorts: Full Command = 3 x 130
2 x 10 Skink Skirmishers: Javelin & Shield = 2 x 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: Blowpipes = 1 x 70
25 Temple Guard: Full Command, Razor Standard = 425
2 x 3 Terradon Riders: Fireleech Bolas = 2 x 108
5 Chameleon Skinks = 65

Pretty standard: skinks, cowboys and block of temple guard. Saw the oldblood build played by the big boys at UK Masters and it looks quite promising to me. I would like to run three cowboys but I don't think I can manage to fit them under the latest ETC restrictions even though I only use 4/5 picks: slann, harmonic convergence and two for 2nd cowboy. I don't really see a good way to maximize the picks but at the same time I don't really feel it necessary either.

I should mention that in addition to the ETC comp pack the tournament is running special scenarios that promote having standards in your army. No Blood and Glory though, only objective based stuff. That's why I have taken standards everywhere I could.

I would have liked to add Tetto'eko to the list as I ran him under draft#1 but the updated pick price on slann and cowboys meant that I had to cut him out. If either only the second slann would count or the cowboys would count only one pick then I would definately fit him in. I do think that the picks for cowboys are too harsh under this draft but that a topic for another conversation.

The slann build is a bit experimental for me. I usually run him with life lore and banner of swiftness. I did the math and saw that the jaguar standard was usually better when making the charges, however this means that the marching movement is dropped a bit which worries me a bit. As mentioned the focus of mystery is something that I don't usually take. However during the latest games I've noticed that even though dwellers and the buffs from life are more than great I just waste couple of my first magic phases as I don't have any offensive potential. Therefore I wanted to try something new. The lore attribute for the high magic seems good as I should have some offensive magic earlier in the game and then change the spells for buffs (wyssans, life regen, etc) for the latter part of game. Don't know how this ends up working though.

So, any thoughts?

Thanks and best regards
Agrem

 

[Splashyfriend]

Im currently running a relatively similar list so I'll throw my two cents in!
Personally, and this may be just me, but I prefer life with this sort of list, with the three combat Characters and the temple guard I find the buffs to be game changing, popping wounds back on the vets is awesome too.
The old blood build you have is the same as mine and he works brilliantly. I use him as a daemon prince killer, as again with life buffs a daemon prince will really struggle to kill him once locked in a challenge.

Everything else looks spot on, you should check out Raffazza's blog if you haven't already, he is an exceptional Lizard player and has some very detailed battle reports. I've learned a lot from his blog!

Cheers, Martin.

 

[Mr Phat]

hah, looks a lot like my "default" list when going into ETC

Its very well rounded!

I usually go with Wandering Deliberaton though....its not a better choice its just less of a gamble, as you will have
something for anything to begin with.

God forbid your TG's goes to combat without a buff / debuff to back them up!

I dont know your meta, but I would personally drop a terradon unit for a salamander, and then try to get points for the 2nd one.

2x solo sally on either side of your TG is rarely a bad investement, and can be used as chaff if they need to


again, not better choices, your list really doesn't lag anything

 

[Agrem]

Hello,

and thanks for the comments.

I have actually checked Raffazza's blog and got most of my ideas about how lizards perform nowadays from him.
Great blog I have to admit - already looking forward for his battle report from UK Masters.

Life is really good option with this list and I have been running it usually as mentioned but I think I need some change for once in a while. And as mentioned I think it's a bit lacking offensively in the early game. I would have definately run life if I would have been able to take Tetto'eko as he would have been able to bring the offensive magic with heavens. Really sad that he is so heavily comped as I made a nice conversion for him also.

The wandering deliberations seem like a good option also. And now that I think more about it sounds even better than focus of mystery. I think I would generally be changing the spells for the signature ones anyway so why not just take them all from the start. I figure that need to be taking the +1LD banner though with the build in order to maximize the effect of spirit leech. Not a problem though since I have been toying around adding a kroxigor to one of the skink units.

Salamanders are really nice indeed. However it's been rather long when I have been able to fully utilize them against big infantry units. I need to think about more of this though. However I think I would be dropping the chameleon unit instead of terradons. I think they both fill the same role in the army (almost) but due to personal preference I like the flying unit more. Not sure if I would be able to fit two though.

Could go with something like this then:

Slann Mage-Priest: General, Battle Standard Bearer, Wandering Deliberations, Harmonic Convergence, Channeling Staff, Ironcurse Icon, Standard of Discipline = 420
Saurus Oldblood: Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Piranha Blade, Potion of Strength = 249
Saurus Scar-Veteran: Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Destiny = 154
Saurus Scar-Veteran: Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Fortune, Dragonbane Gem = 144
Skink Priest: Heavens Magic, Dispel Scroll = 90
2 x 20 Skink Cohorts: Full Command = 2 x 130
16 Skink Cohorts: Full Command, Kroxigor = 160
2 x 10 Skink Skirmishers: Javelin & Shield = 2 x 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: Blowpipes = 1 x 70
25 Temple Guard: Full Command, Razor Standard = 425
2 x 3 Terradon Riders = 2 x 105
6 Chameleon Skinks = 78


BR
Agrem

 

[Mr Phat]

You dont benefit from Standard of diciplin while casting Spirit Leech in ETC

Looks good though ^^


Another thing, im not sure if your second Scar vet will perform well.
His wardsave only takes 33% of things going through.
I would actually encourage you to put him up like this:

Scar vet (AS 5+)
- Cold one (AS 3+)
- Light armour (As 2+)
- talisman of perservation (AS 2+ Wardsave 4+)
- GW

if you really want that +1 armor, then give him shield and spear instead of GW
(cough cough, you JUST got pts for a "potion of speed" to go with that )

 

[Agrem]

Ah, sheesh, you're right. I guess it's back to banner of swiftness then. Which is actually better overall I think.

I actually value the 1+ asv more than the ward save on the scar veterans. Also the great weapon is ace pick for them. I have also been thinking that the 5+ ward armour is not the best item to have but I haven't really found any suitable alternatives either. Perhamps dragonhelm and opal amulet could be worth testing out. I also think that the fire ward is good to have in the list due to all the flaming cannons and k'dai for example. Don't know though which build is best.

BR
Agrem

 

[Mr Phat]

also think that the fire ward is good to have in the list due to all the flaming cannons and k'dai for example.

Sounds like a meta-choice to me
a well argued one also.

 

[Skinquisitor]

I have a competition based on draft 2 like yours, I want to test the following list(bit fun-bit surprise m****-f**er)

-saurus oldblood on carnosaur, looping stride, armor of destiny, dawnstone, ironcurse icon, great weapon. he is the general
-saurus oldblood on carnosaur, looping stride, bloodroar, stegadon helm, talisman of preservation, potion of foolhardines, great weapon
- lvl1 scrollbearer, beast
- tetto eko
- chief on ancient steg with sharpened horns, charmed shield, light armor, spear. he is the bsb
- 3x10 skirmisher with blowpipes
- 2x10 cohort with kroxigor(ld bonus), fc
- 1x20 chorot, fc
- ancient stegadon, sharpened horns

my choices: 3 on tetto, and 2 for having hero+lord % over 60%

In an optimal situation, i can push my 2 carnos into the mouth of my opponent, and hopefully they can engage in combat. they are followed by 1-1 stegadon, the rest of the list takes care of the chaff

 

[Mr Phat]

any particular reason you choose blowpibes?

Im not a fan of them, but if you have some particular way to play them: please do tell!!

else: I like it!

 

[Agrem]

That does look like a fun list to try out. Enough monsters for target saturation and skirmishers to ensure the charges.

The blowpipes question is actually good. I think javelins and shields excel in almost all the situations over the blowpipes. I would also run all three with javelins if I would have enough models.

Another thing is the beast lore for the level one. I don't really see many targets/benefits of wyssans with that list and I think you would be much better off with heavens. Also I do understand that tetto will be soaking up most of the dice anyway. Which is actually even bigger reason to consider heavens and iceshards.

Other than those above that list looks quite good for a carnosaur list that I've also few times tried to build but never succeeded. Nice work.

BR
Agrem

 

[Mr Phat]

In that list you most certainly need 2 iceshard blizzards!

50% to stop a cannon from firing

 

[Skinquisitor]

You are right about the lore, my bad

Why blowpipes? For chaffing, I prefer 10 man cohort with musician, its personal taste, and I use blowpipers for dealing with big targets and warmachines, I rather keep them alive then sacrificing them. 1 unit can take down a warmachine in one turn. The current rules dont let me take more then 3 each without using up a choice from 5. I prefer to take 4 blowpiper unit, and 4 cohort, and I tend to use 1 cohort as bunker for a cowboy, while the other one ensures Ill be the one who charges.

 

[Betelgeuse]

I'm considering the CO-buss together with a Slann as an ETC list now with the 50% lords restriction. Any thoughts on this?

*Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence, Wandering Deliberations, Channeling Staff, Egg of Quango, Dragonbane Gem
*Old Blood: CO, GW, LA, tOTS, ToP
*Old Blood: CO, Charmed Shield, Piranha Blade, Dawnstone

*Scar-vet: BSB, CO, GW, Armor of Destiny
*Scar-vet: CO, GW, Ironcurse Icon, Obsidian Lodestone
*Skink Priest: lvl2 - Heavens, Dispel Scroll

*25 Skink Cohort: Full Command, Jav&Shield, 2 Kroxigors (Babysit slann)
*12 Skink Cohort: Musician, Jav&Shield
*12 Skink Cohort: Musician, Jav&Shield
*10 Skink Skirmishers: Jav&Shield
*10 Skink Skirmishers: Jav&Shield
*10 Skink Skirmishers: Jav&Shield

*10 CO Riders: Full Command,

*Salamander: Additional Handler

 

[Agrem]

Unfortunately as an ETC list it is illegal. With the current draft you have 5 choices out of the pool and you got 8 currently on your list:
1 for slann mage-priest
1 for harmonic convergence
2 for each cold one mounted saurus character after the first = 6

Looking at your list then as if it would not be ETC I got some thoughts. The egg of quango on the slann seems out of place also the unit you are thinking of keeping your slann is a bit weird. You don't really want to get your slann in combat if he's not in temple guard. Therefore the egg would be much better suited on one of the scar-veterans. With the same reasoning I think the slann should also sit somewhere else since the kroxigors would be a waste otherwise.

*Scar-vet: CO, GW, Ironcurse Icon, Obsidian Lodestone
This guy seems a bit weak to me. "Only" a 3+ asv when it is so easy for us to get the 1+ asv save. The lodestone is really nice protection for the unit but the biggest threats of purple sun and other nasty #6 spells won't allow ward saves so maybe you could rethink the equipment for this one. (CO, GW, LA, Dragonhelm, Egg of Quango, perhaps?)

Other than the character section I think the list looks pretty solid CO-bus list as you can't really go wrong with skinks with lizardmen.

BR
Agrem

 

[Skinquisitor]

Also, the essence of a co bus list, what makes it work is vanguard provided by tetto eko, for an additional 3 choice. At draft1, I could make a pretty competitive list, draft2 killed it. I used 3 oldbloods and a bsb:
- old blood, gw, armor of destiny, mr3 talisman
- old blood, stegadon helm, talisman of preservation
- old blood, piranha blade, charmed shield, dawnstone, potion of strength
- scar vet bsb, gw, flag of your liking, pushed to the 2nd rank by command group. if you skip champion, he will hardly be in the first line. I was toying with the idea of giving him skavenpelt banner. If you consider giving 10p for a champion, wich is basically an extra attack, for 65 points you get 3 extra attack from kickass old bloods, 2 regular attacks, and 5 extra for cold ones. Might worth it, have to try out.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Other than the character section I think the list looks pretty solid CO-bus list as you can't really go wrong with skinks with lizardmen.

Yeah you might be right about the character section there. Besides the list being illegal. But is there any way to make the CO-buss work well in the ETC. I think it can work well even without Tetto. Maybe dual bastiladons to eliminate risk of falling inte the pit or purple sun?

 

[Skinquisitor]

Other than the character section I think the list looks pretty solid CO-bus list as you can't really go wrong with skinks with lizardmen.

Yeah you might be right about the character section there. Besides the list being illegal. But is there any way to make the CO-buss work well in the ETC. I think it can work well even without Tetto. Maybe dual bastiladons to eliminate risk of falling inte the pit or purple sun?

Im not happy about this, but the answer is no. Or at least not as good as it could be due to the number of choices. You clearly dont want to take saurus as core, so youll have to take skinks and cohorts, wich are limited to 3, then you start to use up your choices. The optimal would be 4-4, in my opininon, if you dont want to waste your choices on core, youll take 3 skirmishers, and 3 big cohorts(big cohort=twice the cost of the optimal, youll have to triple consider sacrificing them, while a 60 point cohort is expandable always for the greater good). Skipping tetto saves you 3 choices, but then, you have to take a slann, wich is 1 point. I suggest selecting loremaster of high magic, walk between worlds can be an alternative to the vanguard. This leaves you 4 choices, thats 3 cowboy. Well... 4 would be the optimal, but you insist on co bus to etc, this will be your way. If you take the slann, i suggest putting him into the skirmishers, at least miscast wont kill them, and skirmish might be helpfull to avoid cc.

 

[Agrem]

I don't really see the reason why the CO bus wouldn't work without Tetto'eko. I have to admit that I haven't really seen the list in action nor really have played it myself. However I've usually been playing without special characters since our playing group usually have used ETC restrictions so I've used to playing without him.

Can't argue that the vanguard option wouldn't be great for the bus but what if you only roll vanguard for one unit? Then all your other stuff (bar chameleons and terradons) are left behind and you might end up in awkward position. This makes it so that it might be even easier for the opponent to railroad or redirect the bus since all your own chaff is still in your deployment. Or then you will be forced to negate the benefit of vanguarding by not moving much on your first turn so that your skinks are able to catch up. Or then you just simply end up vanguarding something else. (It's actually the same issue with just any build with tetto...)

The main issue I see with this build is that optimally you would want atleast 4 characters but as the restrictions are written you are not able to get more than three in any circumstances: two choices for each CO mounted after the second. Meaning that by taking three you will still leave one pool choice open and that goes to the slann almost automatically. This lets you max out the pool choices with three mounted characters and a slann.

BR
Agrem

 

[Skinquisitor]

I don't really see the reason why the CO bus wouldn't work without Tetto'eko. I have to admit that I haven't really seen the list in action nor really have played it myself. However I've usually been playing without special characters since our playing group usually have used ETC restrictions so I've used to playing without him.

Can't argue that the vanguard option wouldn't be great for the bus but what if you only roll vanguard for one unit? Then all your other stuff (bar chameleons and terradons) are left behind and you might end up in awkward position. This makes it so that it might be even easier for the opponent to railroad or redirect the bus since all your own chaff is still in your deployment. Or then you will be forced to negate the benefit of vanguarding by not moving much on your first turn so that your skinks are able to catch up. Or then you just simply end up vanguarding something else. (It's actually the same issue with just any build with tetto...)

The main issue I see with this build is that optimally you would want atleast 4 characters but as the restrictions are written you are not able to get more than three in any circumstances: two choices for each CO mounted after the second. Meaning that by taking three you will still leave one pool choice open and that goes to the slann almost automatically. This lets you max out the pool choices with three mounted characters and a slann.

BR
Agrem

Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/JustMeDaly/videos
I found them helpfull.b