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AoS 1500pt - Noob help request vs SCE

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Jungle Swarm

FlatcapDan

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Hi guys,
I’m hoping I might be able to learn from some of you as a new player who’s just started collecting in January. As While I’m enjoying playing, I’m struggling to compete.
Spoiler alert - wall of text incoming.

A friend and I have begun learning rules and having a few games, with him collecting Stormcast. Playing 1500 points and battle plans from the 2021 ghb.

Currently I’m struggling to just get sufficient/reliable damage through to keep models off the table. Particularly with the fact that as soon as I do land enough damage to clear a unit, “call for aid” counters me and I’m back to square one. The lack of rend and SCE saves and buffs seem to just make even the best multi unit charges ineffective. Plus his mortal wound output with little counter just eats away at model count rapidly.
I’m not sure if I’m playing too aggressive, pushing to get alpha charges off too early or do I need to be more aggressive.

I’m clearly missing something.I’m aware carnosaurs are fragile from scouting this forum, but with the models I own, I’d like to at least have some chance to play.

Please could I ask for some general advice for early game tactics for a typical match up, should I be going for damage/charges/objectives only/board control?

Models I own (were both playing privately, so both happy proxying within reason while we build our armies). Acknowledge that range is a weak point, future pay days will help revise this...
Slann
Troglodon
Oldblood on Carnosaur
Scar-vet on Carnosaur
Oldblood on foot
2x skink priests/star preists (kit bashed from starter sets)
24x saurus warriors
16x saurus knights
3x terradons
3x ripperdactyls


My list for our last game:

Army Faction: Seraphon
- Army Type: Coalesced
- Army Subfaction: Thunder Lizard
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Slann Starmaster (265)*
- General
- Command Traits: Arcane Might
- Spells: Celestial Apotheosis

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (270)**
- Artefacts: Fusil of Conflagration

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)***
- Celestite Warblade

Skink Priest (80)***
- Prayers: Heal

Skink Starpriest (130)***
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Hand of Glory

BATTLELINE

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Warriors (105)**
- Celestite Club and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Warriors (105)**
- Celestite Club and Powerful Jaws

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Vanguard

**Battle Regiment

***Command Entourage

1500 Points


Example of his army:

- Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals
- Army Type: Scions of the Storm
- Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Lord-Imperatant (175)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
- Prayers: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- Spells: Lightning Blast
Vandus Hammerhand (205)***
- General
BATTLELINE
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
5 x Sequitors (145)**
5 x Vindictors (130)***
OTHER
3 x Annihilators (200)**
3 x Praetors (165)**
CORE BATTALIONS
- *Warlord
- **Redemption Brotherhood
- ***Vanguard
TOTAL POINTS: 1490/1500
 
FlatcapDan said:
Hi guys,
I’m hoping I might be able to learn from some of you as a new player who’s just started collecting in January. As While I’m enjoying playing, I’m struggling to compete.
Spoiler alert - wall of text incoming.

A friend and I have begun learning rules and having a few games, with him collecting Stormcast. Playing 1500 points and battle plans from the 2021 ghb.

Currently I’m struggling to just get sufficient/reliable damage through to keep models off the table. Particularly with the fact that as soon as I do land enough damage to clear a unit, “call for aid” counters me and I’m back to square one. The lack of rend and SCE saves and buffs seem to just make even the best multi unit charges ineffective. Plus his mortal wound output with little counter just eats away at model count rapidly.
I’m not sure if I’m playing too aggressive, pushing to get alpha charges off too early or do I need to be more aggressive.

I’m clearly missing something. I’m aware carnosaurs are fragile from scouting this forum, but with the models I own, I’d like to at least have some chance to play.

Please could I ask for some general advice for early game tactics for a typical match up, should I be going for damage/charges/objectives only/board control?

Models I own (were both playing privately, so both happy proxying within reason while we build our armies). Acknowledge that range is a weak point, future pay days will help revise this...
Slann
Troglodon
Oldblood on Carnosaur
Scar-vet on Carnosaur
Oldblood on foot
2x skink priests/star preists (kit bashed from starter sets)
24x saurus warriors
16x saurus knights
3x terradons
3x ripperdactyls


My list for our last game:

Army Faction: Seraphon
- Army Type: Coalesced
- Army Subfaction: Thunder Lizard
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Slann Starmaster (265)*
- General
- Command Traits: Arcane Might
- Spells: Celestial Apotheosis

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (270)**
- Artefacts: Fusil of Conflagration

Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215)***
- Celestite Warblade

Skink Priest (80)***
- Prayers: Heal

Skink Starpriest (130)***
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Hand of Glory

BATTLELINE

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Knights (110)*
- Celestite Warspear and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Warriors (105)**
- Celestite Club and Powerful Jaws

Saurus Warriors (105)**
- Celestite Club and Powerful Jaws

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Vanguard

**Battle Regiment

***Command Entourage

1500 Points


Example of his army:

- Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals
- Army Type: Scions of the Storm
- Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Lord-Imperatant (175)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
- Prayers: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- Spells: Lightning Blast
Vandus Hammerhand (205)***
- General
BATTLELINE
5 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
5 x Sequitors (145)**
5 x Vindictors (130)***
OTHER
3 x Annihilators (200)**
3 x Praetors (165)**
CORE BATTALIONS
- *Warlord
- **Redemption Brotherhood
- ***Vanguard
TOTAL POINTS: 1490/1500
Click to expand...
well for one you don't have any of our damage dealers with you. and much as i hate to say it warriors aren't good at the moment. (cries in 90 warriors painted) knights can be but our real damage comes from salamanders and stegadons. if you want to run a full monster list the carnos can stay but they need a EotG keeping them in the fight. 2 chances a turn for healing and a tuff priest to drop curse on people would go a long way to helping your big bois stay around.
 
A unit of knights with starpriest staff should nearly kill a unit of 5 vindictors, so should just be a matter of controlling your combats.

Also he can only use call to aid on the sequitors and vindictors so you should have an easier time clearing the other stuff off.

The warriors probably aren't doing you any favors in your list, but the knights should be able to punch through stuff.

Also: until you add a basti or engine, i'd 100% run this as koatls.
 
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@Erta Wanderer and @Putzfrau know much more about playing Seraphon than I do, but here are some things that came to my mind.

If you switch the list to Koatl's Claw, I think you could consider running 2 Scar-vet carnos (although saving points may not really be an issue with your model selection). Still, the Oldblood's command ability and Koatl's features kind of overlap in 3.0.

Proxies are allowed, so I'd think about using 5 of your warriors as Saurus Guard to protect your Slann, similar to his Praetors. Consider using your foot Oldblood, or a Saurus standard bearer, as an Astrolith Bearer proxy. Coalesced does better at reducing damage than Starborne, but a 6+ ward and extended spell range is a useful tool. As long as we're talking proxies, consider using your Slann as a Lord Kroak proxy (he just needs an 80mm base). Kroak can't have artifacts or command abilities, so the fear of rolling "snake eyes" for casting (seems like should be good for us...) or the rare bad 3D6 to have him die is possible. That aside, Kroak can dish out some good spell damage, which is all the ranged attacks you have.

My advice might fail a bit here, since I'm still not the most skilled player...

As you know, our units are brittle. They have power, but only when supported with screens or heroes. If you let a unit get too far from a buddy/hero, they will likely be a sacrifice to the enemy. Also you just have to accept that a Knight charge will end with that unit being wiped, but it will hopefully damage the enemy as it dies.

I assume he uses his Praetors to protect either the Imperatant or Relictor? I'd use the Slann/Kroak to Comet's Call the Judicators (as soon they're on the board), any heroes NOT protected by the Praetors (starting with Imperatant & Relictor), and the Praetors. It's chip damage, but it will whittle them down.

You might consider a "castle" deployment with Warrior screens, then Knights, then heroes. It's slow moving, but as SCE get close, use the Starpriest's staff on a Knight unit and use the Slann's command ability to make them fly, then launch them over the Warriors. If you decide to use Kroak, as your armies get closer, it opens them up to 3x castings of Celestial Deliverance which can be a punishing spell.

DON'T FORGET
• Screens. Try your best to put a unit in between something like your Carno, so it doesn't get charged first. Hopefully, after the screen gets hit, you can still counter punch.
• The Redeploy command after your opponent moves or drops down (EDIT: It probably doesn't work when SCE drops down. Good catch @Tilorn91).
• Mystic shield.
• (EDIT: Coalesced) Seraphon got an update in White Dwarf from October 2021. Now all terrain in, or partially in, Seraphon starting territory is Mystical for Seraphon and Deadly to your opponent. Mystical gives Seraphon within 1" a 6+ ward AND priests get a +1 to chant rolls. Deadly does D3 mortals on a "1" if enemy is within 1" of the terrain piece.
• Along with that update is the Beastmaster mount trait. Once per game it gives your Carno either 1 extra attack with both its claws and bite OR run and charge. The latter usually surprises people not prepared for it.
• Your Carno has a 2" range on all of its attacks. Screen it with either Knights, turned long ways, or Warriors. If the screen gets charged you can still attack over them. Only Vindictors could reach it.

I know this is "easy to say, hard to do" advice, but I hope some of it is helpful.
 
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Sorry to derail the advice train for a bit, but something caught my eye. Is Redeploy legal do use after a SCE unit falls from the sky? I always played it as not being able to do so, as any deep strike or teleport is instead of normal move, hence not triggering the Redeploy requirement?

EDIT: All the other advice is very sound, something I wish someone told me back when I was starting.
 
Tilorn91 said:
Sorry to derail the advice train for a bit, but something caught my eye. Is Redeploy legal do use after a SCE unit falls from the sky? I always played it as not being able to do so, as any deep strike or teleport is instead of normal move, hence not triggering the Redeploy requirement?

EDIT: All the other advice is very sound, something I wish someone told me back when I was starting.
Click to expand...
That's a good call. Redeploy may not be usable for SCE drop down.
 
Tilorn91 said:
Sorry to derail the advice train for a bit, but something caught my eye. Is Redeploy legal do use after a SCE unit falls from the sky? I always played it as not being able to do so, as any deep strike or teleport is instead of normal move, hence not triggering the Redeploy requirement?

EDIT: All the other advice is very sound, something I wish someone told me back when I was starting.
Click to expand...
it is not you've got it right. redeploy only applies after a normal move so not when your opponent deep strikes or teleports.
 
Normal move, run, or retreat*

redeploying after a unit (like zombies) moves away from you thinking they can just pile back into combat is hilarious.
 
Thanks guys, reading through this and the tutorial post on the forum there’s plenty I’ve been missing out on. I’ve not been utilising my preists and spells half as well as I should be.
I have a couple of purchases planned and have a few weeks before we get together for another game so will let you know how it goes.
Really appreciate the replies, lots of good advice :)
 
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