8th Ed. 1500p against Heavy Gunline Dwarfs

[Wolf_Mk]

Hi all! I wanted to ask here for advice against Dwarfs armies filled with cannons and so. The usual list I fight against is two cannons, one organ canon, two girocopters, thunderers and long-bearded, rude guys with epic names and candy.

I though about this:

- Slann (Metal) w/ Mystical Focus and Stone Soul

- Oldblood cowboy w/ CO, AoD, GW, BSB

- Skink Priest (Beasts) w/ LVL2

- 10x Skink Skirmishers w/ blowpipes

- 10x SkSk w/ Javelin and shield

- 20x Saurus Warriors (FC)

- 20x Temple Guard (FC)

- 5 Chameleon Skinks

- 5 Chameleon Skinks

- 5 Chameleon Skinks

Total: 1499 pts

This list is to make sure to have units (chams) that can get quickly to the enemy warmachines and be safe time enough to kick dwarfs asses with the slann and saurus eat their heads.

The questions are:

- Instead of Saurus, Skink Cohort (with the Priest inside)?

- Any other way to fight against heavy fire-power dwarfs?

I also thought about Terras/Rippers, but Chams are cheaper... Maybe Jungle swarms?

 

[hdctambien]

two cannons, one organ canon, two girocopters, thunderers and long-bearded, rude guys with epic names and candy

Comet. Comet. Comet!

If you can take Tetto, take him. Also get a level 1 and level 2 Skink Priest on Heavens and Slann on High. If you have to, swap spells for Comet. Otherwise, swap into Metal if you like.

Iceshard is your best friend too. 50% chance to shutdown a war machine in the early game, and 16% less hits against you in combat in the late game. AND it's a magic missile against the Gyrocopters!

Setup outside the Organ Gun's range and cast comet early and often. Don't advance until the War Machines have been obliterated. Take the Ironcurse Icon!

Every Heavens spell is a magic missile against the Gyrocopters, even Wind Blast!

Dwarfs will out fight Saurus, you want to fight them alter rather than sooner. The Organ gun will slaughter anything that tries threatens the war machines. I'd make the Old Blood killy and put him on foot in the Temple Guard unit. Wait for him to come to you while you rain fire down upon his war machines, then engage on turn 6 and try to take out a character or two with your Old Blood. Use Wind Blast to slow down his advance!

One last note:

- Oldblood cowboy w/ CO, AoD, GW, BSB

Old Bloods can't be BSBs. Besides the Slann, only Hero level characters can be the BSB.

 

[Wolf_Mk]

Yep, that would be a Scar Vet for BSB, sorry!

The problem is... He's all ranged, and doesn't move at all due to the fact that with his range, he can hit me without moving since Turn 1...

So, that would be: Slann (High), Priest (LVL 2 Heavens) and Priest (LVL 1 Heavens)?

Taking notes! Really appreciate it!

 

[hdctambien]

The problem is... He's all ranged, and doesn't move at all due to the fact that with his range, he can hit me without moving since Turn 1...

Oh, he'll move when there's an impending Str 6 - 10 rock about to land on him!

If you deploy against the back of your deployment zone there should be at least 30 inches between you and him. Only his cannons can hit you from there, and the Temple Guard become cannon wound markers for you (that's why you should put the Scar Vet in there, he'll get a 2+ look out sir from the cannons) Just make sure you take enough of them to last you the whole game of getting shot up by cannons.

Remember, Comet is not remains in play. Even if it doesn't fall, you can cast it again ... and again ... and again...

Also, don't commit to deploying your units a certain way either. If he's got cannons, why give him ranks to hit?

Don't deploy like this:

SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS

Deploy like this:


SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Then you can deploy off the back edge and have 34" between you and his deploy zone! Once the War machines are taken care of by Comet, you can move up and reform as necessary. Also, deploying this way with the Slann will make your Miscast Footprint pretty small.

The funny thing is, if he is a sit back and shoot army, it'll take him a turn or so to realize that he has to move if he wants to get any of your points. By then, it'll probably be too late for him.

The only thing you have to worry about are his Gyrocopters. One or two of them isn't too scary if you have enough Skinks. I wouldn't take any Saurus as your core. Just Skinks. Mostly Javs, but a unit or two of Blowpipes might work out for you if he is aggressive with the Gyros.

The thunderers will have to move up before they can shoot you. Screen your TG with Skinks if you're worried about them (spread 2 units of skinks out 10 wide 1" in front of your TG... stay 30" away from his Organ Gun!)

I might not even take a BSB for this strategy if I can find a better place to use those points (especially in a 1500 point game)

This is not the most fun way to play the game. But the first time it'll be funny! After you win a game or two by saying "Movement phase: I have no movement. Magic Phase: 6 dice comet." maybe your Dwarf opponent will try out a Dwarf strategy that isn't just sitting back and shooting war machines at you.

So, that would be: Slann (High), Priest (LVL 2 Heavens) and Priest (LVL 1 Heavens)?

Yep. The Level 2 has a 1/3 chance of rolling Comet. If he doesn't roll Comet, don't swap anything for Iceshard. Then the Priest has a 1/4 chance of rolling Comet (that's a 41% chance total of rolling Comet). If he doesn't get comet, I wouldn't take Iceshard either. If neither of them get comet, then the Slann has a 33% chance of rolling comet for each spell he casts.

If you can afford to take 2 Level 2 Skink Priests, then the 2nd Priest has a 50% chance of rolling Comet (75% chance of rolling Comet) which would leave the Slann a 50% chance to roll comet when he swaps spells.

Note: you can only have 1 copy of Comet, so as soon as a Priest rolls comet, you can start swapping into Iceshard Blizzard and don't have to worry about having the Slann swap into Heavens (although Chain Lightning would be nice for the Slann to nuke the Gyrocopters with)

If you can use Special Characters, then Tetto'Ekko starts with Comet (and can allow you to get 2 comets if you also take the Priests or swap the Slann into comet)

Remember, to win you only need to kill more of him than he kills of you. If he only kills a few skinks with his Gyrocopters and you kill all his war machines, you're probably going to win the game. Don't be bullied into walking into warmachine range! Don't be bullied into charging into combat if you have nothing to gain! Don't 6 dice a spell with your Slann on turn 6 if you don't need to!

 

[hdctambien]

One more thing. Reservoir of Eldritch Energy is awesome against Dwarfs. It's basically a free power die every magic phase!

 

[Wolf_Mk]

I get the strategy, and it's quite brilliant. But if I place a row of Skins in front of the TG/Slann unit, it will be a magnet for cannonballs.

In the case he puts some Hammerers/Longbeards (just to screw up my strategy), it would be better to have the Slann with Metals to make sure, don't you think?

Slann w/ Metals, and 2 Priests w/ Heavens (or Tetto+Priest)

 

[hdctambien]

But if I place a row of Skins in front of the TG/Slann unit, it will be a magnet for cannonballs.

A cannon can only kill 1 Skink per turn. And if he's shooting cannonballs at 7 point models I think you're going to be alright! And if you deploy the TG in a single rank a cannon can only kill one of them, too. You don't have to worry about the cannons. Just stay out of the Organ Gun's range... that's always my undoing.

In the case he puts some Hammerers/Longbeards (just to screw up my strategy), it would be better to have the Slann with Metals to make sure, don't you think?

What's he march, 6"? And he has 34 inches to travel. It'll take him 5 turns to make it across the board and through your deployment zone (because you left 10" of your deployment zone empty!) And on turn 5 he still has to roll a 7 to successfully charge!

Plus, Wind Blast! If you're really worried about him getting too close, push him back d3+1 inches a couple times! If he's got the ability to vanguard, that'll throw a wrench into things... but you know what counters vanguards? Scouts!

If you can afford a little unit of 5 Chamelons, drop them between the vanguard unit and your Temple Guard. He can't end his vanguard within 12" of your scouts, so then he's back to having to march 34" across the board to get to you!

I'd still stick with High Magic, it's so useful. Especially if you buy Loremaster for it. If you think you're going to need Metal, swap into metal. If you don't start the game with Heavens, swap into it to get Comet.

You have to be tactical with your magic phase against Dwarfs. High Magic gives you some nice tools. Don't have much to cast on turn 1? (Especially if you didn't roll Comet to start) Cast Drain Magic on a friendly unit ... why would he dispel that? Cast Apotheosis on your Slann, why would he dispel that turn 1? Now you've got 2 spells you can trade (that would give you a 100% chance of getting Comet, or a 33% chance of getting whatever spell you wanted from Metal or Death (Dwarfs don't like Purple Sun either!) )

One last thing, the math I did on your chances of rolling Heavens to start the game are a little off. I didn't calculate the 16% chance you have of rolling doubles with the Level 2 guy.

So there's a 1/3 chance you roll heavens with the Level 2, and a 2/3 * 1/6 chance you don't roll comet but do roll doubles. That's a 44.1% chance of the Level 2 rolling comet. Then the level 1 has a 1/4 chance of rolling comet and a 1/3 chance of rolling one of the Level 2 priest's spells. Which is 33% chance. So there's a 77% chance of rolling Comet with a Level 2 and Level 1.

I think 2 Level 2's is closer to 95% chance that you'll get Comet to start.

 

[Wolf_Mk]

But the cannonballs can actually be shot anywhere, and they also roll, so he can easily hit my TG I think.

Anyway, I will try this for sure, and comment back here to check what happened!