7th Ed. 1000 Points help vs Skaven

[aclaflin]

So I played for the first time using my brand new lizardmen against my friend's Skaven. This was the first game using the new Skaven rules, and my first time playing Lizardmen (O&G normally). I was slaughtered to two pitiful skink salamander handlers. So I thought I could tell you what I was running, and what he was running, and what mistakes I made with deployment and movement. We play hard lists because we feel that using what's available to a general should be used.

I was playing the following:
Saurus Scar Vet w/Shield, Light Armor, and Great weapon

LVL 2 Skink Priest on EoTG

17 Saurus Warriors w/spears 6x3 (Scar vet goes here)

2x 10 skink skirmishers

2x Salamander hunting Pack


He came at me with:
Plague priest on a plague furnace with lots of plague monks

2 engineers

4 units of 20~30 slaves (forgot which)

4 jessails

1 doom wheel


I tried to lead away the monks with skinks, but the monks ended up being blocked by another charging unit of slaves, so i didn't get the charge in the flank with the saurus like I wanted to. The EotG took out the doom wheel in turn three, but by that time I had no more skinks (killed by magic), and the Saurus were charged by the furnace unit and two units of slaves. The salamanders did nothing but fire ineptly at the doom wheel and watched their flames bounce off.

So, my mistakes that I can control are- 1. placing a unit of skinks too far off on the flank 2. not charging earlier with the Stegadon. 3. not targeting slaves with the salamanders (too far away).

Barring these controllable aspects, are there any suggestions to bring my lizardmen up a notch?

I don't have two many more models available, but we can proxy anything for a fun game. Thanks!

Andy

 

[Bibamus]

that list falls to skinks quite fast. poison the doomwheel (it only has 4+ armor save) and poison the furnace (you randomise hits but neither the furnace or the priest has any kind of save).
i'd say get more skinks since he doesn't have any saves and you can basically posion him to death. teh salamanders aren't that usefull since even if you force his slaves to test they will do so at Ld 9. you may want some terradons to bait his furnace till you poison it down (large target, you can have your skinks in the units flank) because you don't want to be in combat with an unbreakable unit that has 3 attacks/model + automatic S5 hits and D6 T tests.
the jezzails aren't something to worry about, they have BS 3, move OR fire and aren't skirmishers anymore. even if they manage to get a wound or 2 on teh stegadon they shouldn't be able to get off 3 wounds so he earns some VP's.
also if you keep the salamander and he keeps the jezzails make them test for panic. they have Ld 5 and WILL flee.
other than that... you might want to ram his slaves with your stegadon. they will probably break in the 1st round of CC and the explosion shouldn't be so bad with T6 on teh stegadon and 2+ armor save on the crew, if you do this with saurus some might die and you don't want that in case the furnace makes it in comba. 6W at T6 is hard to deal with only saurus, even with spears

 

[aclaflin]

Thanks Bibamus. That furnace is really tough, but I know that I probably have an unnatural fear of it, just like he fears my stegadon.

What do you think, get rid of the sallies, add two more units of skinks? Lead the furnace round with one unit of skinks while the rest of them shoot the slaves and doom wheel? What might your list look like?

Our next match up is wednesday, and I hope to do better this time.

Andy

 

[Bibamus]

actually, terradons are great against the furnace. with flying and hit and run that unit will never make it in combat if you are a bit carefull if you lose 1 sally and 3 saurus you should be able to field 3 terradons and the saurus unit would be reduced to 5x3. the great weapon on teh scar wet is rather useless since all rats have T3 except the odd plague monk and big things. he would be better off with an additional hand weapon or the sword of battle if you can find the points for that. also a cold one would be nice but i don't know if you can squeeze the points for that. an additional S4 atack and +2 save isn't really necassary

 

[aclaflin]

So something like this?

Heroes
Saurus Scar Vet
General; Two Hand Weapons; Light Armour

Skink Priest LvL 2
EoTG
Plaque of Tepok

Core
11 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

14 Saurus Warriors
Spears; Standard; Musician

Special
3 Terradon Riders

Rare
1 Salamander Hunting Pack

The plaque is because last game I rolled neither of the three damage causing spells, and was forced to cast shielding spells and re-rolls. This will give me a chance to get a better spell.

Andy

 

[Bibamus]

that looks better. it should be able to handle the furance and the saurus should hold against any charge as long as they aren't outflanked

 

[aclaflin]

Great, I'll give it a go on wednesday and let you know how it went.

 

[aclaflin]

So we had our Wednesday match last night, and things went a lot better than last time. I took the same list that we talked about, but his looked quite a bit different than last time.

Engineer lvl2

Engineer lvl 1

engineer lvl 1

2 units of 25 clan rats with doom flayers

3 units of 5x plague censor bearers

1 unit of giant rants (to screen the censor bearers)

1 doom wheel




I was able to control this battle a lot better than the last game. I deployed more centrally, and played a pretty good game. I led his censor bearers around with timely fleeing with skinks, I held his doom wheel up 2 turns with the terradons. He finally charged my skinks with the wheel, and they were able to flee and enabled an awesome counter charge by the stegadon, whereby I took him out with impact hits and burning alignment.

All in all, I had the game won, until the dice turned against me. Two of his warp lightening spells got through to my saurus, and my general fled on a triple 6, and being less than a quarter of his force, he was unable to rally. At the end of turn 6, I had taken out everything of his but the two units of clan rats, but those were badly damaged, and all I had left was half a unit of skinks, and my priest on Steg. Technically a draw, but I'm claiming moral victory.

Still don't know why people like the salamander. 2 games and I have yet to deal a single wound. I think I'll try the razordon next time. Put him in a position where his frenzied units have to charge and see if any get through.

Any more ideas? Thanks for the help!

 

[the ironfoot]

Nice, mabye next time the dice gods favour you and you can truely smak those little ratmen to the ground!

I really like the salamander, do you shoot with him at a target roughly 10" away? that's about the best distance to hit your opponent. If you really don't like them you could get an other unit of skirmish skinks, as razordons are pretty crappy IMHO. The skinks should really help you with that doomwheel and other nasty stuff.

good luck and may Sotek be with you!

 

[Bibamus]

you'd have to place your razordons quite centrally if you want to frenzy bait with them, thats not very good for a specialized shooting units, also shooting at skirmisher while standing and shooting you hit on 5's or 6's (dont remember if they get penalty for S&S or not). 2 art dice/model can cause them not to shoot at all.
his list was rather foolish with no plague priest, it would have really helped him out to get some T tests on your army. sorry to hear about those trplle 6's lol, its a dice game s!@t happens from time to time. i had my saurus flee with double 6's and a 5. i guess they were REALLY scared of the rat engineer.

 

[aclaflin]

Razordons don't take a penalty to stand and shoot, but even so, you're right, I would only hit on 5's. but it might be enough to make him screen his units better and play more tentatively, which plays into my hands. I'm going to try it wednesday and see how it works. But then again, who know what he will be bringing. He has so many models he can bring just about any list he wants. Gotta love the faithful lizardmen. Choices? Salamander or Razordon? How many skinks? easy.