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8th Ed. Only the 8th...

NIGHTBRINGER said:
To each their own. Scrapping most of the best factions really killed it for me. That and the neutering of the magic phase.
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the magic phase has been (slightly) neutered even more, now it's harder to cast your spells.

TBH, the magic phase in 8th was fascinating (so much fun to build your lists arond it) but also too swingy for my tastes. I miss the magic pool, but not that handful of OP spells
 
Killer Angel said:
the magic phase has been (slightly) neutered even more, now it's harder to cast your spells.

TBH, the magic phase in 8th was fascinating (so much fun to build your lists arond it) but also too swingy for my tastes. I miss the magic pool, but not that handful of OP spells
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I love the magic phase in 8th. Not perfect, but tactical and brilliantly fun. You're right that there were a small handful of spells that should have been toned down. Lizardmen were more affected than most due to their abysmally poor initiative.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
You're right that there were a small handful of spells that should have been toned down.
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Yep, that was basically the real issue with the magic phase and the reason for its undeserved bad reputation.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I love the magic phase in 8th. Not perfect, but tactical and brilliantly fun. You're right that there were a small handful of spells that should have been toned down. Lizardmen were more affected than most due to their abysmally poor initiative.
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Killer Angel said:
Yep, that was basically the real issue with the magic phase and the reason for its undeserved bad reputation.
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Curious... which spells do you feel absolutely needed to be toned down?
 
I have a mixed feeling on the magic phase. Some spells are very high end, pit of shades or regrowth, but are needed for how the edition was made. My complaint is the lack of balance as some armies such as the Tomb Kings get a, IMO, rubbish number six spell and it activity makes people avoid the spell lore as they want the higher value spells. My group was competitive but wanted balance and allowed me to use the Return of the Golden Age spell instead of the str 4 large template spell. So much better value and made me want to take two spell casters on that lore to make sure I'd get it. Normally I'd take one and then go for light.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Curious... which spells do you feel absolutely needed to be toned down?
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one of the worst offender was purple sun. Too strong agains armies as Ogre kingdom, Dwarfs, lizardmen, almost worthless vs elves.
A spell so badly balanced is a big no from a design pov
 
BrotherSutek said:
I have a mixed feeling on the magic phase. Some spells are very high end, pit of shades or regrowth, but are needed for how the edition was made. My complaint is the lack of balance as some armies such as the Tomb Kings get a, IMO, rubbish number six spell and it activity makes people avoid the spell lore as they want the higher value spells. My group was competitive but wanted balance and allowed me to use the Return of the Golden Age spell instead of the str 4 large template spell. So much better value and made me want to take two spell casters on that lore to make sure I'd get it. Normally I'd take one and then go for light.
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Yeah, that 6th spell for the TK is pretty weak. I always swap it out for the signature.

Killer Angel said:
one of the worst offender was purple sun. Too strong agains armies as Ogre kingdom, Dwarfs, lizardmen, almost worthless vs elves.
A spell so badly balanced is a big no from a design pov
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So if that spell were appropriately tweaked, you'd be happy with the rest of the 8th edition magic phase?
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Yeah, that 6th spell for the TK is pretty weak. I always swap it out for the signature.


So if that spell were appropriately tweaked, you'd be happy with the rest of the 8th edition magic phase?
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let's say that as a general rule, i don't like the spells that remove models with just a failed test, so basically it's Purple Sun, Dwellers Below and Final transmutation.

if i recall correctly Pit of shades at least uses a template but you look at the models that are under the template after the scatter, while Purple Sun includes all the models touched during the scattering.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Yeah, that 6th spell for the TK is pretty weak. I always swap it out for the signature.


So if that spell were appropriately tweaked, you'd be happy with the rest of the 8th edition magic phase?
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For the most part yes. I dislike how it allowed for so many power dice and certain armies could regularly spam cast with a ton of dice praying for double 6s. Limiting number of dice per Caster was more my style, esp as I used to play Tomb Kings before 8th. Dark Elves and VC were the biggest offenders in 7th and they continued into 8th. Again the edition was made to be this way so it only bothers me that there isn't consistent balance for magic. In 7th I fielded my Wood Elves with no magic as it wasn't that needed for how I played. My HE and Empire had much more and let's not even mention the magic builds I used for Lizardmen. My main issue with magic in 8th, to get back to the topic, is that you are punished if you don't take it and your opponent does. We were sold a fantasy that you didn't have to take spell casters but if you didn't and your opponent did... it wouldn't go well. Same with not always taking level 4 Wizard's, I've seldom faced anyone who didn't max one out because they are so good. Dwarves are obviously given a pass on that but they better take anti magic of they will get crushed.
 
a1w9gf.jpg
 
Some interesting considerations about the necessity of the death of WHFB

 
I have to disagree with a lot of these videos. Yes it's true that "on the day it was cancelled" there was little that could be done. But give me control of GW for the 5 years prior and there was absolutely plenty.
- constant updates of models, new sculpts, plastics, new LL models, ensuring each faction has at least one release a year
- fleshing out other factions (Kislev, Cathay) adding lore to the world for new models
- more of a company focus on 1000 point games and streamlined rules to get players interested (even if community comp was 2000)
- you want an elite empire military unit in golden armour fine *vom* if that's what it takes
- this would have kept it alive and well to reap the benefits of Total War phenomena and the interest it triggered
 
Also, if they had just walked back from needing blocks of 40+ guys for core units and a bus of 15 to 18 cavalry, it would have been a lot easier to get into. And that was well within scope.

Small rules change PLUS waiting just TEN MONTHS for the release of Total War Warhammer.

Total War alongside a 9th Edition release that brought the entry point back to a reasonable level would have seen the game TAKE OFF
 
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