TOW Square Based Renegade Lizardmen Changes Mega Thread

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

They explain the logic being that they remove the 1+ from most legacy factions since this probably the only update they will get so this opens up options. Yeah you can run skink cloud but now we have temple guard doing actually useful things with slanns to bulk up points. Saurus warriors need help, i mulled around what if they got predatory fighter back alongside TG?

Predatory Fighter would be nice to have, but the simplest thing would be to reduce their points cost - no way did they deserve to have their points cost go up from 11 to 14 and their rules nerfed, especially when Skink Skirmishers had their points reduced. It seemed as though the guys who wrote the list were massive Skink fanboys. I'd still also suggest upping Skink Skirmishers to 9 points per model from 7 in 7th/8th, to make players more wary about taking them in numbers and more cautious when using them.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Saurus need help, but really it's infantry in general that need help

With the change to cold blooded saurus are already doing better.

Predatory fighter would be amazing, but in general the things holding saurus down are holding everything down.

Biggest issue is the changes to AP this edition had made them less survivable, and when you couple that with low I and the lack of step up, it can be really hard for them to get attacks in.

 

[Kalisto]

Saurus warrior are just so BAD. Cost too much and have initiative 1.
I agree about to try to avoid skink cloud. But it would be much simply to have 1+ of saurus warrior OR temple guards.
18 temple guards and 12x3 skinks are 500 points for example

 

[Ryanj4043]

While i dont like the need for 1+ anything particularlly when we're struggling as is, a points cut and or init increase would be big for saurus. +1 armour as well i think could be nice since to help us live. Although init would be bigger for that.

 

[PizzaSaurus]

Val probably wont do points changes in the next batch, so considering that my wish list would be:

- All blowpipes get quick shot, including the Stegs giant one.
- Razors get quick shot (for stand and shoot), needs more nails (for auto hits and misfires) and s3 ap1 to not be too powerful. And ofc lose Multiple Shots. Also new rule "Instinctive defence" (Must stand and shoot but can reroll artillery dice)
- Krox get full plate
- All skinks lose light armour
- Skink Chiefs on foot get upgrade options for Vanguard or Scout
- Rippers get Armour Bane (1) and Frenzy and lose Furious Charge and Impetuous.
- Terradon fireleech bolas cause D3 hits
- Bastiladon change Thunderous Bludgeon to a 1 attack max S10 w +1 to hit in the rear. Ark of Sotek change the rule so it adds a whole base of swarms instead of restoring D3 wounds - like zombie resurrection.
- Trog gains Swiftstride and is a Behemoth
- Change Wandering Deliberations to grant 5 spells
- Stegadons can pay for Sharpened Horns (-2 AP on impact hits)
- And then i would just replace Saurus Scaly Skin with Armoured Hide (2) and allow Saurus Heroes and Skink Chiefs to buy Light Armour

Saurus are victims of core rules issues. With that being said, giving them an upgrade option for Drilled might give them some utility and be thematic. Predatory fighter is also a potential idea making them more killy but less realiable. But they mainly just need to cost 2 pts less base i think and then start from there.


Points changes if they happen actually are kinda minimal but very impactful i think:
- Saurus should be cheaper, so 12 pts base - similar to tooled up Black Orc
- Skink Skirmishers should be more expensive but get blowpipes for free, so 7 pts base
- Chameleon skinks should probably also go up a bit, especially if blowpipes get quick shot so 12 pts base

New units are obvious:
- Cohorts (w krox would be great)
- Skink Cav + Cav mount for skink heroes
- Dread Saurian

For added flavour and options some cool things could be:
- Skink Short Bows
- Bola and Shield option for Chameleons
- Additional rider upgrade option for Terradons (1 extra W, A and missile shot per model)
- Slann can buy multiple disciplines
- Allow High Elves to take LM as allies
- And the dream: Bring back the combat Slann from 5th ed - option for palanquin bearers upgrade that give good combat stats (WS4, A6, S6, T6, W6 maybe?) but forces the Slann to go in the front rank of TG. Basically a whole new unit

 

[SirSmanthian]

Hello! First time posting on the forums so bear with me. Ive already played one game with the renegade rules and am playing another game tomorrow. Overall the new rules are nice and just make lizards fun shenanigans abound. However some units could do with some love:
-Chameleons need their skin back (-1 to hit) and maybe give them quickshot to different them from regular skinks
-Trogs need help and i like the suggestions people mentioned early (at least give them swiftstride)
-I want the blessed spawning to come back but that would be a stretch to see Val implement
-No idea about Razordons would rather take Sallys
-Saurus would get buffed if infantry got buffed overall (step up might return from GW)

I also think some of the old characters should be brought back but not the "lustria" centric ones (no mazdamundi but the other characters who travel the Old World). Val wont do that but its nice to hope

Hope you guys play some games with the rules and have fun

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Hello! First time posting on the forums so bear with me.

Welcome to Lustria! Great to see you playing the better GW game we discuss on here

Ive already played one game with the renegade rules and am playing another game tomorrow. Overall the new rules are nice and just make lizards fun shenanigans abound. However some units could do with some love:
-Chameleons need their skin back (-1 to hit) and maybe give them quickshot to different them from regular skinks
-No idea about Razordons would rather take Sallys

This doesn't surprise me in the least... it very much seems to be the case that the Square Based guys simply wanted to return the TOW Lizardmen list to the meta from the past two or three Editions - Skink spamming and Salamanders - rather than actually give the list a wholesale improvement. They just wanted to buff the units they wanted to buff and leave Saurus and Razordons in the dirt. This makes me even less interested in playing the Square Based army list now.

-Saurus would get buffed if infantry got buffed overall (step up might return from GW)

I have heard from a chap on another forum (EEFL - though it's Eighth Edition for Life and populated principally by 8th die-hards a portion of the community also enjoys TOW) who has contacts with TOW playtesters that there will be a rules update at some point in the near future that will see infantry get 8th-style supporting attacks back, so this is good news for Saurus at least:

Rumours are that changes to TOW are coming, maybe this year (July?), but probably Jan 26.

+1 armour save for sword and board.
Behemoths and their riders increase in points.
Max. 3+ armour on Behemoths.
Behemoths capped at 500pts.
Infantry able to fight in 2 ranks.
Scenarios are to be huge for determining the winner.

 

[discomute]

I have heard from a chap on another forum (EEFL - though it's Eighth Edition for Life and populated principally by 8th die-hards a portion of the community also enjoys TOW) who has contacts with TOW playtesters that there will be a rules update at some point in the near future that will see infantry get 8th-style supporting attacks back, so this is good news for Saurus at least:

Not good news for those of us who spent countless hours modding spears for the Saurus. If step up returns it blows the maths right off haha.